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Thread: The problem with supports continues with Io

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    Beta Player Baron DarkSoulEnvoy's Avatar
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    The problem with supports continues with Io

    The overall issue supports have right now is that they're slowly being relegated into being heal bots with poor survivability. And that's exactly where Io is.

    1.) None of her legendary cards give an option for damage increase. Weird
    2.) Her only non healing focused LC is a situational card that might keep you alive for a few extra seconds ONCE every 45 seconds.
    3.) She BARELY does 600 damage/second. Umm....

    Thoughts

    -She should either do more base damage/sec or her health pool should be increased slightly. Either one would allow her to not die in 1.2 seconds.
    -Goddess' Blessing should also give Io the 25% damage reduction while healing. Or ONLY give it to Io and not the person being healed. I mean...who would most likely need damage reduction in this situation. Someone who is being healed and still able to move and use all of their abilities of Io who has to hold and aim her heal the entire time?

    - If Io gets rejuvenate, the healing she receives from Luna while using Life Link should increase just like it does when other allies get it.

    Her ult. *sigh*

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    Beta Player Marquess KicsitCsicska's Avatar
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    I already wrote the solution how to make supporters not heal bots by take the opportunity to buff their healing output. The remaining cards could be enaugh to rise their survibility. (Cauterize vs Supporters)

    Sacrifice let her playing more agressively by don't fear the death. It let her deal more dmg. This talent saves her until the enemies don't find her again. Not just for a few seconds. You just have to put Luna onto the right (safe) place.

    Her dmg can be more then 600/s if she attacks with Luna together. You can use Luna for deal dmg.

    Goddess' Blessing is a blessing. Why would it increase Io's survibility instead of the blessed ally? It makes her heal more useful against cauterize, I think it is useful. But not for defense herself.

    Rejuvenate's description is: Receive 10% more healing from other players.
    Luna isn't a player. It's Io's deployable, its healing is Io's healing. When it heals, Io get the healing credits and it counts as Io's healings.

    Her only problem is her escape skill. She can not escape from an enemy who hunts her, not just attacked bec Io was the nearest enemy.
    Last edited by KicsitCsicska; 07-17-2019 at 02:41 PM.
    Thanks for reading my post!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KicsitCsicska View Post

    Her only problem is her escape skill. She can not escape from an enemy who hunts her, not just attacked bec Io was the nearest enemy.
    Well, pretty much no support can escape if being hunted by flanks. Well okay, Furia can 1v1 flanks in some situations, Pip can maybe get out with Weightless, or just chicken them, Damba can ult them or stun if he's lucky, and he has 20% damage reduction, but the others can't do much against flanks. That's what I dislike when playing supports, you can't 1v1 flanks, you can't run away from flanks (in case of Seris, the flank can get illuminate or follow the sound cue and chase her), you have to rely on your team to help you. And more often than not my team just spams need healing and doesn't notice that flanks are hunting me all the time.So I'd say supports need either a health buff like in the past, so they're harder to kill, more mobility so they can run away from flanks, or just more burst so they can 1v1 flanks.

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    But when it comes to Io's damage output, her wolf/fox also does quite some damage, and it can stun you, so it's not too easy to kill her I'd say in a 1v1. And she can use her leap twice with the Leap reset card. But her healing output is definitely lackluster compared to some other supports.

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    Beta Player Baronet driggydrug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schachmaty View Post
    Well, pretty much no support can escape if being hunted by flanks. Well okay, Furia can 1v1 flanks in some situations, Pip can maybe get out with Weightless, or just chicken them, Damba can ult them or stun if he's lucky, and he has 20% damage reduction, but the others can't do much against flanks. That's what I dislike when playing supports, you can't 1v1 flanks, you can't run away from flanks (in case of Seris, the flank can get illuminate or follow the sound cue and chase her), you have to rely on your team to help you. And more often than not my team just spams need healing and doesn't notice that flanks are hunting me all the time.So I'd say supports need either a health buff like in the past, so they're harder to kill, more mobility so they can run away from flanks, or just more burst so they can 1v1 flanks.
    More burst?? No thanks, ttk is already too low.
    But yes.. more HP and mobility, decrease their healing output if needed but also nerf cauterize.

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    Beta Player Sovereign Prince Shadowpuppy's Avatar
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    Healers need sustain and taking away heal buff cards is not a solution.

    Furia has a great sustsin card but it requires 4 to 5 points and then 4 points to get your heal down to 3 seconds and now you have some good sustain every 3 seconds.

    It works great, problem is that its just mandatory..

    If a healer cannot use thier heal on themself tjey should have a built it heal mechanic in thier kit.

    Damba has a gord but furia has to spend 8 points in loadout just to keep her seld up.

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    Grohk, Grover, Pip, Ying, Damba
    The old Supports were characters able to recover themselves with base kit features.

    Seris is an oddball, but it works well enough due to healing through rend soul and out of combat healing with shadow walk.

    Jenos and Furia though.... my heart sunk a little playing these guys, both characters feel too squishy for any role other then hiding near a corner and using walls. Their retreating options are limited and easy to read, their mobility does not enable them to brake combat as easily as older supports.

    Supports need to be pretty durable, not just durable when an ally is near and aware. When a support dies the whole team is put on the defence due to the lack of recovery.
    If a champion has to rely on self sustain healing with no kit feature to cleanse cauterise, then the character is flawed and gets eaten by cauterise until they brake away from combat. Best mobility supports and flanks can have are moves that allow escape from a 2-3 foes without being hunted easily, pretty much getting out of caut.

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    Beta Player Baron DarkSoulEnvoy's Avatar
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    **Responding to a few different people and too lazy to quote them all**

    -In my option, legendary cards that don't DIRECTLY affect/modify/benefit the character using then are more often then not bad. Io's Goddess' Blessing does not benefit Io. I won't ever use this card. If Io doesn't get the damage reduction while healing she should at least get a base increase in her moonlight pool while using this card. Same goes for Jenos' Luminary card. On the off chance I play Jenos (I very VERY rarely bother after all the unnecessary nerfs he's received) I never pick this card and never will. Yes, you do more damage which doesn't help me against the flank that hunting me down while you're off doing whatever halfway across the map. An easy chance to this would be to give Jenos a 5% increase in attack strength or a 5% damage reduction for each mark that's currently active. This would make it worth while to pick while still having the focus be on pumping out astral marks. A non-support example of this is Skye's Smoke and Dagger card. The fact that Skye doesn't receive healing from the smoke cloud while using this card is.....dumb. I guess the idea is that you don't want a Skye only using this on herself. A simple change would be to make it so Skye would only get healed if an ally is in the cloud as well.

    -Can we stop making backwards jumps/thrusts/leaps a thing? These are not good mobility skills and not great for escape. Sha Lin at least goes stealth when he leaps backwards and Furia has an attack combined with hers. Io on the other hand has neither. Stop it. Just stop. Io should receive a small "moonlight" shield when leaping backwards IN HER BASE KIT to make this bad skill at least tolerable.

    -As someone mentioned, supports should have self heal in their base kit. PERIOD. Especially characters like Io who seems to be made to do nothing more than heal. Io's Restored Faith card that heals her for a SUUUUPER TEENY TINY amount when she's healing someone else should be in her base kit. Even with 5 points, it's not such a strong self heal that it couldn't be in her base kit. Furia's self heal should be in her base kit and should either start once she uses kindle soul on someone (whether they're at full health or not) OR should be instant. The fact that she needs to 1.) have Burning Oath in her loadout 2.) find an ally that isn't at full health 3.) hope kindle soul isn't on cooldown and 4.) wait for a few seconds before burning oath applies all of its healing is way too much to ask considering her base speed and poor mobility.

    -Yes, I still believe Io should get increased healing from Luna while using life link if she buys rejuvenate. Luna already acts more like another player than any other deployable in the game. She can attack on her own and Io can actually heal her AS IF SHE WERE ANOTHER PLAYER.

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    Member Viscount DaddyOoker's Avatar
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    @DarkSoulEnvoy

    Jenos can heal thru walls. This means he can hide the entire match if wanted. I don't do this (boring) but I've seen people play this way. Jenos can shoot and use void grip to get away. I don't think it would be fair to buff his damage or give damage reduction. He's not helpless.

    Skye has the Healing Vapors card that can heal her. That in combination with adding self heal to the talent would be too much.

    I've only used IO in one live match so far (21 minutes). I used IO's leap to avoid death a few times. It's not useless.
    I need more play time to get a feel for how useful that self heal card is. I'm also not sure if the card activates once per heal cycle or if it accumulates over time during the same cycle. If you know for sure which... Luna heals IO so you have that as long as you stay near. In the 5 instances I died I don't feel the reason was for lack of self healing.

    With Seris you can "over heal" and that will still trigger the Blood Pact card. I'm fairly certain you can do the same with Furia and that self heal card if you need to. I admit Seris' self heal is much superior however I feel Furia's weapon is better - compromises.

    I'm still not sure about Luna being there at all. I used Luna to defend the payload the enemy had captured while I'm off helping my teammates. Yeah, it's a cool idea but it's almost making it 6v5 when the enemy doesn't also have an IO.

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