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Thread: Ranked Placement Change Suggestions

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    Member Viscount DaddyOoker's Avatar
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    Ranked Placement Change Suggestions

    Since we are doing a reset every 3 months something needs to be done about the placements problem. People are trying to rank up and/or get fair matches but keep getting complete noobs doing placement matches in their matches. I have seen matches with 3 qualifiers on one team against none on the other - totally unfair. This with only ~8 days remaining in the split. What's the point of allowing placements so far into the split? This is the source of ideas #1 and #4.


    I have a few possible ideas.

    #1: If a player has not done the 5 placement matches in the first 3 weeks after a split he can not play ranked until the next split starts. This idea eliminates all placement matches after 3 weeks into a split. If this idea is too oppressive then it could be restricted to accounts that have never been ranked before or if their account is below level 70.

    #2: For a player who has never played ranked before, initialize a qualifiers rating with a value the equivalent of 3 tiers lower than it does now. The reason behind this is I believe qualifiers are being placed too high due to the carry factor. Especially for accounts below 70.

    #3: Qualifiers should be required to solo Q.

    #4: Balance the number of qualifiers on each team. In no case can one team have a different number of qualifiers than the other team. The qualifiers should also be balanced by their rating and account level as best possible. #3 makes this easier to implement.
    Last edited by DaddyOoker; 07-09-2019 at 09:46 AM.

  2. #2
    Member Baronet Smokin Oats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaddyOoker View Post
    Since we are doing a reset every 3 months something needs to be done about the placements problem. People are trying to rank up and/or get fair matches but keep getting complete noobs doing placement matches in their matches. I have seen matches with 3 qualifiers on one team against none on the other - totally unfair. This with only ~8 days remaining in the split. What's the point of allowing placements so far into the split? This is the source of ideas #1 and #4.


    I have a few possible ideas.

    #1: If a player has not done the 5 placement matches in the first 3 weeks after a split he can not play ranked until the next split starts. This idea eliminates all placement matches after 3 weeks into a split. If this idea is too oppressive then it could be restricted to accounts that have never been ranked before or if their account is below level 70.

    #2: For a player who has never played ranked before, initialize a qualifiers rating with a value the equivalent of 3 tiers lower than it does now. The reason behind this is I believe qualifiers are being placed too high due to the carry factor. Especially for accounts below 70.

    #3: Qualifiers should be required to solo Q.

    #4: Balance the number of qualifiers on each team. In no case can one team have a different number of qualifiers than the other team. The qualifiers should also be balanced by their rating and account level as best possible. #3 makes this easier to implement.
    1. First I feel like no matter what it will be oppressive to require people to play ranked in the first three weeks of a split. I take breaks from this game that can last 2-3 weeks and I’d be pissed to be disqualified. It also pushes new people away from the mode and possibly the game, which in turn very bad for hi Rez business.

    2. I might have misunderstood you on this one but I agree that people brand new to ranked should be given some sort of curve they have to pass. Too many times I’ve encounter brand new players in diamond and platinum just because they duoed with a good veteran player. One dude won 5/0 and was placed in plat 1. This ends up running ranked games. You have high ranked players who have no idea how to properly play the game without their duo partner or just got lucky on there first 5 matches.

    In my opinion there should be a hard cap of gold placement only if it’s your first split of ranked. Anyone can get lucky and win 5 games in row without being good in qualifiers, so let’s not reward this with diamond placement for a person with an account thats under level 30 and who only has only 2 champions over level 10...

    3. Requiring only solo ques for ranked placement matches defeats part of the purpose of working as a team. Duo partners might play better together when they know someone will have there back compared to 4 players that you can’t contact easily, especially without a keyboard. This is a team based game and taking out any form of co-op would only hurt Paladins in the long run.

    4. Man I wish this was something they could fix but I just don’t think it’s possible. Maybe at the beginning of a split this could work, however, the issue is the small player base that is spread around americas/Europe/Australia/Asia/Africa(ananywhere else that has servers) while also being spread around PC/PS4/Xbox/switch(switch and Xbox play together in ranked). Just looking at the forums shows how this game is slowly losing its player base, no one posts anymore and I find myself playing the same people a lot more often. When I joined this forum is was a lot busier and I also never saw repeat players in my games.

    With a dwindling player base, it becomes increasingly hard to separate players based on their rank or if they have qualified. I believe this to be one of the core issues of matchmaking and why teams feel mismatched a lot regardless of ranked or causal matches. I myself have taken a break from this game and feel like I might never come back. My love for this game is immense and always has been, I’ve enjoyed the two or so years I’ve played this game and have dedicated most of my Xbox time to playing Paladins. But like many people I am having a harder time coming back which is killing the player base. All the people I use to play with on Paladins have all quit out. I feel I only come back because of the money I’ve sunk into this game.

    My bad for going a little off topic there at the end just my full thoughts on that and I know you are one to actually listen.

  3. #3
    Member Viscount DaddyOoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokin Oats View Post
    1. First I feel like no matter what it will be oppressive to require people to play ranked in the first three weeks of a split. I take breaks from this game that can last 2-3 weeks and I’d be pissed to be disqualified. It also pushes new people away from the mode and possibly the game, which in turn very bad for hi Rez business.

    2. I might have misunderstood you on this one but I agree that people brand new to ranked should be given some sort of curve they have to pass. Too many times I’ve encounter brand new players in diamond and platinum just because they duoed with a good veteran player. One dude won 5/0 and was placed in plat 1. This ends up running ranked games. You have high ranked players who have no idea how to properly play the game without their duo partner or just got lucky on there first 5 matches.

    In my opinion there should be a hard cap of gold placement only if it’s your first split of ranked. Anyone can get lucky and win 5 games in row without being good in qualifiers, so let’s not reward this with diamond placement for a person with an account thats under level 30 and who only has only 2 champions over level 10...

    3. Requiring only solo ques for ranked placement matches defeats part of the purpose of working as a team. Duo partners might play better together when they know someone will have there back compared to 4 players that you can’t contact easily, especially without a keyboard. This is a team based game and taking out any form of co-op would only hurt Paladins in the long run.

    4. Man I wish this was something they could fix but I just don’t think it’s possible. Maybe at the beginning of a split this could work, however, the issue is the small player base that is spread around americas/Europe/Australia/Asia/Africa(ananywhere else that has servers) while also being spread around PC/PS4/Xbox/switch(switch and Xbox play together in ranked). Just looking at the forums shows how this game is slowly losing its player base, no one posts anymore and I find myself playing the same people a lot more often. When I joined this forum is was a lot busier and I also never saw repeat players in my games.

    With a dwindling player base, it becomes increasingly hard to separate players based on their rank or if they have qualified. I believe this to be one of the core issues of matchmaking and why teams feel mismatched a lot regardless of ranked or causal matches. I myself have taken a break from this game and feel like I might never come back. My love for this game is immense and always has been, I’ve enjoyed the two or so years I’ve played this game and have dedicated most of my Xbox time to playing Paladins. But like many people I am having a harder time coming back which is killing the player base. All the people I use to play with on Paladins have all quit out. I feel I only come back because of the money I’ve sunk into this game.

    My bad for going a little off topic there at the end just my full thoughts on that and I know you are one to actually listen.
    1. I knew it would be oppressive. I'm flexible with the actual time, account levels. Have to start somewhere. To have account level 17 qualifiers still coming in near the end of a split makes is extremely difficult to get anywhere. It's a serious problem as it seems like there is an unlimited supply of qualifiers. I think this problem is turning away players from ranked just as much as the MM problems. I could argue they are related issues.

    2. Yes, you understand the reasoning behind it exactly. I don't like the cap idea because there are people who are legit worthy of the higher rank. My suggestion is intended to lower their initial placement and if they are worthy they will rank up. If they want to take the easy road then I suppose a rank cap will do. I'm not sure if a cap is much different than just placing the entire population in a specific tier and going from there.

    3. True but it's only for the 5 placement matches. The intent it to place the person where he belongs instead of being carried by his best friend who could be an account level 300 diamond or better. If the diversity of the players levels and quality in the party were limited that could work but I'm sure that would give rise to more issues than my solo suggestion. Also, solo Q placements is almost a requirement for #4 to be possible.

    4. If the activity on a server is so low that being able to put an equal number of solo qualifiers on both teams isn't possible then that server is already dead. I agree that complete seperation isn't possible. I'm not suggesting seperating qualifiers from placed. I'm suggesting that the number and quality of qualifiers are equally applied to both teams. I've seen matches with 3 qualifiers on one team and 0 on the other. That's just unacceptable. In the rare case that there is only one qualifier in the Q then I think we could live with that instance of a qualifier imbalance. Again #3 makes this easier to implement and more fair.


    The forum is being destroyed by the inability of people to login. I hope they put the new forum out soon.

    Some of my "friends" quit ranked and play only casual and turned on cross play - uggg - I have no interest in slaughtering gamepad players - defriended. Others haven't logged on for months. I defriended all my inactive friends. I solo Q most of the time. I'm OK with that.

    Anyway, I appreciate your input. I hope you don't quit permanently. Just a thought, maybe put on a mouse/keyboard on that Xbox. I'm seeing some Xbox in ranked here and there - I'm on PC.

  4. #4
    Member Viscount DaddyOoker's Avatar
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    I'm the unlucky Seris. This is exactly what I want to avoid. This can't continue.


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    just raise ranked requirements like so many players have said for so long
    when you have 1 or more players below lvl 50 in a game when you are lvl 450+ i seriously doubt it would be balanced
    it would also prevent smurfs a bit
    I actually had games with 4 players below 50 in my team...vs full 150+

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    Member Viscount DaddyOoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    just raise ranked requirements like so many players have said for so long
    when you have 1 or more players below lvl 50 in a game when you are lvl 450+ i seriously doubt it would be balanced
    it would also prevent smurfs a bit
    I actually had games with 4 players below 50 in my team...vs full 150+
    I won't dispute the requirements issue. Thing is if they implement just #3 and #4 of my suggestion this match could be much more reasonably balanced - enemy team was all solo Q.

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    Beta Player Marquess TangAce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaddyOoker View Post
    I won't dispute the requirements issue. Thing is if they implement just #3 and #4 of my suggestion this match could be much more reasonably balanced - enemy team was all solo Q.
    mmmh maybe, but anyway problem is also how the MM works
    cause just not having a newbie with you doesn't mean you won't get stomped cause of a bad team

    PS : I updated Cynthia with cards and posted it on reddit if you wanna give some thoughts

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    Member Baronet Smokin Oats's Avatar
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    I have no examples because it been a week or so since I’ve played but I’ve encountered many games causal or ranked where the team level go as followed:

    My team: level 300+, 50, 95, 66, 32
    Enemy team: level 200, 150, 180, 90, 133

    I’m level 300+ and I get gimped with the lowest played people in the lobby. This isn’t to say that low level can’t be good or smurfs but it’s not always the case. I just get tired of being matched with all the lowest people. It’s almost as if they are trying to balance the teams by level sometimes and because I’m so high I have to get the lowest players automatically.

    The suggestions are all nice but sadly hi Rez hasn’t fixed matchingmaking at all, and in truth they actually made it worse by allowing cross play a couple months back or whenever it was. I don’t expect them to fix matchmaking when the player base is getting smaller and smaller. The percentage of players is slowly becoming primarily low accounts who play for less than a month and then leave once the freeness is gone. It’s summer time and more kids are playing as well but looking at steam charts and Xbox Paladins groups it’s easy to tell how little people are playing compared to just a couple months ago.

    With these issues fixing the spagetthi code Paladins has, to fix matching making doesn’t seem possible at this point and probably why they haven’t done anything about it. I mean there is an entire thread dedicated to matchingmaking and yet tell me the last time they openly said they fixed matching in a patch other than cross play. What’s up with that. Any other game and it would be a totally different story.

    I don’t mean to be so negative but i feel like suggesting ways to fix matching making is beating a dead horse at this point. Is it just me or does it feel like 1in2 games someone disconnects as well? It’s just disappointing going to another game like dead by daylight that’s been around for around the same time and yet it feels like the matching making is a thing. No disconnections or bots or AFKers or trolls. Haven’t played much but Jesus it feels so much better it terms of everything but gameplay.

    I love Paladins and always will but hi Rez feels to have done us all dirty. Maybe I’m wrong and I’ll come back in a couple months to a better game. But man, idk if matchingmaking can/will ever be fixed.

  9. #9
    Member Viscount DaddyOoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    mmmh maybe, but anyway problem is also how the MM works
    cause just not having a newbie with you doesn't mean you won't get stomped cause of a bad team

    PS : I updated Cynthia with cards and posted it on reddit if you wanna give some thoughts

    I argue that #3 alone would make the MM's job easier. #4 should enhance the balance.

    If I get stomped in a fair fight that's OK. It's when I get a first timer level 17 that is not a smurf - as in my example posted - that's when I have an issue. To pair two of them on one team does not promote fairness and balance. We all know a party gets boosted too. Obviously this party should not have been. The party boost mechanism also needs to be looked at. Qualifiers should never (unless there are no placed people) be first pickers either as they were in this case.

    I don't really want to turn this into another MM thread. I know it's related. If we make the MM's job easier maybe they can get it working somewhat reasonable.


    I'll take a look at Cynthia.


    Quote Originally Posted by Smokin Oats View Post
    I’m level 300+ and I get gimped with the lowest played people in the lobby.
    This isn’t to say that low level can’t be good or smurfs but it’s not always the case. I just get tired of being matched with all the lowest people.
    It’s almost as if they are trying to balance the teams by level sometimes and because I’m so high I have to get the lowest players automatically.

    The suggestions are all nice but sadly hi Rez hasn’t fixed matchingmaking at all, and in truth they actually made it worse by allowing cross play a couple months back or whenever it was.
    I don’t expect them to fix matchmaking when the player base is getting smaller and smaller.
    The percentage of players is slowly becoming primarily low accounts who play for less than a month and then leave once the freeness is gone.
    It’s summer time and more kids are playing as well but looking at steam charts and Xbox Paladins groups it’s easy to tell how little people are playing compared to just a couple months ago.

    With these issues fixing the spagetthi code Paladins has, to fix matching making doesn’t seem possible at this point and
    probably why they haven’t done anything about it. I mean there is an entire thread dedicated to matchingmaking and yet tell me the last
    time they openly said they fixed matching in a patch other than cross play. What’s up with that. Any other game and it would be a totally different story.

    I don’t mean to be so negative but i feel like suggesting ways to fix matching making is beating a dead horse at this point. Is it just me or does it feel like 1in2 games someone
    disconnects as well? It’s just disappointing going to another game like dead by daylight that’s been around for around the same time and yet it feels like the matching
    making is a thing. No disconnections or bots or AFKers or trolls. Haven’t played much but Jesus it feels so much better it terms of everything but gameplay.

    I love Paladins and always will but hi Rez feels to have done us all dirty. Maybe I’m wrong and I’ll come back in a couple months to a better game. But man,
    idk if matchingmaking can/will ever be fixed.
    It is doing something with account levels. I agree it's f'd up the way it's working.

    Since crossplay is really input matching I don't think it has affected ranked all that much. The other modes are another story for those have it enabled.

    Many years ago I was subcontracted to fix and change ~5 years worth of spagetti code a company had created. I did what they wanted in a week. Hi-Rez could do the same if they can't do it themselves. I don't know what they are waiting for.

    I can't argue about the disconnect/bot/afk/troll/thrower issue.

    I hope you're wrong - we can have hope.

  10. #10
    Member Baronet Smokin Oats's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaddyOoker View Post
    I argue that #3 alone would make the MM's job easier. #4 should enhance the balance.

    If I get stomped in a fair fight that's OK. It's when I get a first timer level 17 that is not a smurf - as in my example posted - that's when I have an issue. To pair two of them on one team does not promote fairness and balance. We all know a party gets boosted too. Obviously this party should not have been. The party boost mechanism also needs to be looked at. Qualifiers should never (unless there are no placed people) be first pickers either as they were in this case.

    I don't really want to turn this into another MM thread. I know it's related. If we make the MM's job easier maybe they can get it working somewhat reasonable.


    I'll take a look at Cynthia.




    It is doing something with account levels. I agree it's f'd up the way it's working.

    Since crossplay is really input matching I don't think it has affected ranked all that much. The other modes are another story for those have it enabled.

    Many years ago I was subcontracted to fix and change ~5 years worth of spagetti code a company had created. I did what they wanted in a week. Hi-Rez could do the same if they can't do it themselves. I don't know what they are waiting for.

    I can't argue about the disconnect/bot/afk/troll/thrower issue.

    I hope you're wrong - we can have hope.
    I hope this doesn’t count as a necro. I hope I am wrong too. Hope is all we have left for hi Rez lol. What I find super disappointing is that every person I know who plays Paladins now resorts only to bot games since they can never get a good regular game that is actually fair.

    You’re comment about the code doesn’t surprise me. I wouldn’t be surprised if they could hire someone to fix it in less than a month. I’m just worried Paladins isn’t making enough money to warrant such a huge change to there code or something. Paladins has been out for quite a long time and is probably at the point where they won’t be able to bring in a huge influx of players unless by some grace of god overwatched dies. Hero shooters aren’t the big craze anymore and probably passed there peak. I feel like the spike in players on Paladins after each update is just the old players coming back to see if hi Rez fixed the bugs and play a couple rounds as a new character. Updates rarely bring new people in, I feel most of the new people who join Paladins come from the fact that it’s a free game but the investment this game requires and the community that surrounds it probably discourage these new players from putting any money into it.

    Is it also weird that a lot of the main Paladins people are gone. Raynday and the voice of Cassie both exited recently and over time others have left as well like drybear. I’m curious if they think it’s dead or unfixable. Rainday was probably the most optimistic person in the community that Paladins would become an even bigger game and he left. Maybe it was just the personal reason they all said for leaving but it just makes me feel like even they aren’t into it anymore. I mean Raynday stopped posting Paladins content on his YouTube 5 months ago, not even a video on IO. Raynday was always the face of Paladins to me and he’s gone now. It just feels like the death of one of my favorite games, only it’s not a quick death. It’s slow a painful one that will last another year till the devs stop making money off cosmetics and battle passes.

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