Cassie / Lian & Ammo Management

[AyyDimitri]

It really feels like these two could stand to use ammunition for their abilities rather then being able have offencive abilites always at the ready.

I'd rather see Cassie have less shots in her mag if she intends to throw a disenguage and blast arrow at you. Same goes for Lian using ammo for all her weapon attack abilities that apply caut, wrecker and dozer. (Cause that makes total sense.)

They may preach "flow of character" but nothing has been done about players requesting Ash Shapnel Blast to be like other attack effects in the game, not requiring ammo to use for flow of game play.

There needs to be a bit more vunrability to using their attack moves. Like not being able to active them while reloading would be a start (or Lian not firing during grace with no ammo.)

Burning through your ammo reserves faster would cause a few more holes in performance without removing big fast damage moves, lowering the potential damage remaining in the rest of the magazine after.

I personaly think it is justified as Lian and Cassie have cards granting additional ammo.

[PoTAToSNlpEr]

It really feels like these two could stand to use ammunition for their abilities rather then being able have offencive abilites always at the ready.

I'd rather see Cassie have less shots in her mag if she intends to throw a disenguage and blast arrow at you. Same goes for Lian using ammo for all her weapon attack abilities that apply caut, wrecker and dozer. (Cause that makes total sense.)

They may preach "flow of character" but nothing has been done about players requesting Ash Shapnel Blast to be like other attack effects in the game, not requiring ammo to use for flow of game play.

There needs to be a bit more vunrability to using their attack moves. Like not being able to active them while reloading would be a start (or Lian not firing during grace with no ammo.)

Burning through your ammo reserves faster would cause a few more holes in performance without removing big fast damage moves, lowering the potential damage remaining in the rest of the magazine after.

I personaly think it is justified as Lian has an ammo reset talent, and Cassie has a card granting her additional ammo.

I was about to make a thread exactly on how to balance these two characters but you beat me to it. Your thread could use a specific detail how exactly u want to nerf them. The only thing that made me almost disagree with some part of your thread about lian is that you dont seem to either play her much or at all. That is becuz the ammo reset talent(Precision) you are talking about got reworked a very long time ago to buff your weapon shots instead. Heres what I was going to propose for these two characters.
Cassie:-
*Ammo count reduced from 6 to 5.
*Blast shot cooldown increased from 10->12
*Blast shot and disengage consumes ammo.
*Kinetics: Reworked to- Hitting blast shot grants 10/50% lifesteal for 2 seconds against the target.
Lian:-
*Presence, Grace and valor now consume ammo.
*Presence and valor cant be used if you have no ammo.
*If Grace is used without ammo, it will not deal dmg.

[Shadowpuppy]

Remove Lians reduce cooldownsnon elims and she is balanced.

remove cassie cool down blastshot on people hit.

The bust does suck but the fact thst theh can both have that busrt skill up every 5 seconds is what makes it OP

Lian can get 7 seconds off with card and and the other 50 percent from elim so as long as she gets the kill she can use it again right after killkng someone with it.

If you want cassie disengage or blast shot to use ammo you woild need to make both do base in hand damage as when skills use ammo they normally do in hand damage. This would mKe her burst even more insain

[AyyDimitri]

Oh thats right it received dumb asf inhand attack talents that were wonky design and balence choices. Man it has been awhile since I played Lian, but it really was not that fun and creative to play, I just felt too cheesy.... (that said I only play it for pressence reset soooo...)

Anyway you would not have to increase damage to match inhand attack damage for Cassie. Why would you need to?
- Blast arrow's potential of hitting multiple targets makes it fair damage.
- Disenguage is a knockup + knockback which provides enough utility to displace foes, pretty much making it a makoa hook vs certian champs with little mobility.
These are already pretty good.

Cassie will not need less ammo if her abilities consume ammo.

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My whole issue with Lian is that her damage is too consistant,
And yes her CD resets do play into account here, thus the to consume ammo on ability use ploy here.

Given her low cooldowns, 1 assist frag out of nowhere can give her access to initiate attack abilities multiple times in 1 fire fight before her magazine is empty, saving her ammo but still and extenting her tradeing shot time by 4-5 shots using grace and valour alone.

Everything in her kit is an attack with no less damage then her base attack damage, so abilitiy resets in any format might as well count as an extra free shots of her magazine without consuming anything at all.
Why would you need more ammo when CD resets and chronos can do a little bit for you.

At least with ammo consumption, Lian only has so many shots she can throw out, before needing a mandatory pause. This way it is much easier to count how many times she has fired before she is in a divable state (divable considering her ult (giggles).