Jenos void grip

[Shadowpuppy]

This skill needs to be reworked both for balance and for Jenos.

1) He can lift invis players
2) It takes zero aim and cannot miss


There should be no skills that cannot be missed, however the skill blows from a player view point as you cant do shit as jenos when you use this skill. Its just a bad mechanic all together.

They should change it to a skill shot that can be missed however, Jenos is no longer required to hold the lift, aka he can shoot and do what ever he wants after hitting the skill shot.


Thjs would make the skill more viable as well as remove the flank frustration of having to say away till resil two.

it would also make jenos pretty deadly as lifting and shooting would be very powerful, but it would be balanced with the miss mechanic of skill shots

[cocoduck3]

then get resilience it will reduce the grip in just 0.5s and your free or better yet shoot him when his on the scene.
i keep on getting void grip but focus on reliance is the best counter of it.

[AyyDimitri]

Only advice I can give about fighting Jenos,
"He who fights like a bitch, deserves to die like a bitch"
I seriously don't have fun playing this guy, so I'm not the best to talk about balence, but being on the reciving end enough times, I see where some of its faults are, so prepare for a rant.

When he was first previewed. I stated my opinion that his control move was a free pick in the open that stops mobility moves when they are activated. With a longer then normal CC effect. This ability would define the performace of this champ.

It makes him strong as a shut down engine on assault and defence.
This is what Jenos provides as a support, dive control, controlled dives, making trades shorter at the expense of any hold the line healing.

But the trade off, if they are exposed and use a mobility move for aggressive or defencive means with a vigilant jenos nearby, they are already dead.
Sometimes you just sit there (for 2.5s + respawn time) and think, why is this allowed, how is this even fun, on either players side of things.

Void grip is strong in a team synergy sense, but can be shut down with some planning, take my advice and never walk into battle without some CC immunity ults or ability to deal with control when in dire need. I know there are ways to counter it, but it really could use a look at unless there are going to be a few more CC cleanse moves from allies, and a couple of HP dropped below X resets dash cards across the board.

The only issue I have is that it lasts 0.5s -1s longer then it needs to, making resiliance a big defining factor in going againt it.
How is it 2.5s long, there are wind up, skill shot stuns that aren't as long.
Potentially upto a 6ish sec window with cards to reset it, almost garenteed with cripple until resiliance gets factored in, neat.
This can allow for a cc combo chains to occur, thus cc resist is crutial.
I don't really have issues with this, it is strong, but its duration makes it too secure.

The character itself is weak and strong control does not make up for it when Jenos is very easy to dive, snipe, bully, cripple and so on.
When a person screams out that his grip is down, brake him in two.
Current issue is team communitation is not on that level in casual.

The only reason I call Jenos weak is that his fighting and fleeing power in a 1v1 and 1v5 sense is sub par compared to the supports who came before him, he can be dived by other supports who have resiliance or CC immunities. I just wish he had better jump height and air control, and the flanks wern't as basic.

The aim assisted Shut Down mobility move is pretty disgusting to play against. You can have all the skill in the world but you will be shut down by a skill that needs little understanding other then defencive positioning and line of sight and the right timing. But if that is the skill gap they want to close, so be it.

I'll pick Chad Grover just to play with a fair skill shot cripple effect, which sadly had its duration cut in half to 1s due to "Its duration was too long". But they skipped the bit where Jenos cripple talent lasts 2.5s, is technically a root effect, with a damn strong reset mechanic when its pulled off, forcing resiliance more then any other ability I know of in order to counter this.

Tbh I wish it had less duration at base but dealt greater Damage over time to compemsate, with an initial 300 direct damage on hitting and furthermore dealing 200 damage over 1.5s and 400 damage over 1.5s with the talent. Applying inital damage would help apply some damage given the fact that the Damage over time on control moves is countered by resiliance. Cause 360 and 720 damage over 2.5s is pretty bad when CC resist factored in.

TLDR
Recude duration to 1.5s.
Applies 300 Inital Direct damage.
(Due to how resiliance weakens the DoT too much. Dealing some inital damage would make for greater reset potential.)
Deals 200 enemy HP Direct Damage Over 1.5s.
Talent deals 400 Direct Damage Over 1.5s
Lowers reset potential to 5.5s over 6.5s.

CD 10s < 12s (less lockout time in exchange for less duration.)

[Shadowpuppy]

The problem is it cant be missed. There should not be free skills in the game. They took Khans ult away as free grab was just to strong. Jenos is not to strong but its unavoidable which is garbage. It should be a skill shot even if its an easy one.. Clicking right click over and over till you connect is a pretty shitty mechanic.

[AyyDimitri]

Look the idea they were going with was... it's like tovald nullify as a champion. But trust me when I say it's not that bad, it just performs a bit too well. Allowing snipers to put 2 rounds into a person with ease. If the game had some more CC cleanse supports and talents then this would not be much of an issue at all.

Jenos has no saving grace healing factor, so his allies are easily brought down unless they can rotate and mitigate damage amongst each other, or get thier own windows of healing, life rip kill to heal. As a revocery engine, jenos is a wimp.

As a control engine putting the enemy on the backfoot he exceeds well, to change that ability would mean to change a lot to jenos kit to make up for the loss of secure single target control to potential single target control. I do admit that %70 of champs need that kind of overhaul to redifine the meta game. But start with small changes first.

As a base ability without the cripple talent it does have it's element of being a skill shot. In a sense it is about having to wait for another player to use or exhast their movement options in order to gain full duration of the ability or have the abiliy gimped, enexchange for exhausing mobility.

Talking about the power of this root as a punishment tool, use 1 mobility tool, get rooted for a duration of 2.5s, a player can die in just half of that duration. A player can die just having thier dash haulted ffs, to chuck a near 3s root on top of that. That is bullshit.

A good flank should have either two mobility options, or a strong biding time move against this, the poorly designed ones just die. Damage with no mobility or anti cc just straight die or are zoned back due to it's duration and kill potential in high tier play.

The issue with the flanks who have to go againt this is design. Having mobility options that get shut down by the talent are fine, but due to the effects duration, certain bide abilities like reversal do not even meet its total duration, unless resiliance is online, that again is bullshit round 1. Either it gets less duration or flankes get their biding time moves extended.

Problem with damage with no mobility, bide, or anti cc, moves, is that the duration is an overtoned free root vs these guys makes them a free kill when in a poor position or dived.

Yes it is 1000% accurate and the variable range though cards makes is very hard to get a feel of it's distance winge winge.

But I feel if the duration was reduced to the length of 1.5s and bide moves were regulated around this number, it would feel a bit fair at least and would be a start to making jenos feel sissy, without having to rework abilities, or animate new effects.

[Shadowpuppy]

He would be way stronger if it was a skill shot and he was not trapped into holding it. Jenos could lift and kill people him self. He would still have all the same control. he has now only it would be possible for him to wiff it.

[AyyDimitri]

Yeah, I agree with you, I share a similar stance there, that not being able to fire while using his control (or mobility) move makes jenos one of the more... wimpy characters to play. Any dynamic to make jenos feel more like a chad is a go.

I think if they may have playtested with that, they thought it was too much, when truely a 2.5s duration was the issue there.

Being able to dish out damage and control is what makes supports quite fun to play. But getting locked out of this feels like I'm missing out.

The fact that his only "fun" & "Offencive" playstyle of ALWAYS JUMPING, JUMP SHOOTING & HOVERING was STRAIGHT UP FREAKING REMOVED... Lowering his reactivity, survivability WITH NOTHING GAINED IN RETURN. Should indicate how high these guys were when they implimented that change.

Look I could talk all day about reworking this guy to be so awesome that I would like to play it.
And not just have a healing viktor wannabe with a death grip.