View Poll Results: What do you think about these talent reworks?

Voters
4. You may not vote on this poll
  • All of them are good changes (please reply what you like the most about them)

    2 50.00%
  • Some of them are good changes (please reply which ones you think are bad)

    2 50.00%
  • None of them are good changes (please reply why you think they are bad)

    0 0%
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: Fernando Buffs (Talent Reworks)

  1. #1
    Beta Player Baronet Vampragon43's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    The Realm
    Posts
    175
    Level
    63
    Points: 9,005, Level: 63
    Level completed: 85%, Points required for next Level: 45
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester Tagger First Class 5000 Experience Points Forum Tier 3 1 year registered

    Red face Fernando Buffs (Talent Reworks)

    So whenever you go into conversations about balance, one of the biggest characters to pop up is Fernando. The almost universally accepted consensus seems to be that he is weak, but that isn't necessarily true. It's not that his base kit is weak, it's that all of his talents are very oddly situational. There is no real universally useful talent, which is a problem on a front line like Fernando.
    So, I think it is high time he got his talents reworked, and as such I decided to make a thread about how I think they should be reworked to be more useful.


    Aegis: Your Shield has its cooldown reduced by 0.5 seconds for every 500 damage it takes while active, reducing its cooldown by up to 8 seconds when completely broken (or up to 10.5 seconds with Towering Barrier 5).
    Our first rework is for Aegis. Now, almost every front liner has some kind of talent that allows them to shield much more effectively to fill a role of being more of a shielding tank. Makoa has his Half Shell that allows him to protect himself while still dishing out damage and CC. Ash has Fortress Breaker which makes her normally highly aggressive shield into more of a team shield. But Aegis on the other hand just doesn't really help much at all. Yeah, it reduces the cooldown by 3 seconds, but a shield on a 12 second cooldown is still heavily unreliable when Wrecker exists and there are no ways to reduce it any further without Chronos. With this rework, Aegis would make his shield much better by reducing its cooldown depending on how much damage he blocks with it, effectively rewarding him for blocking lots of damage. Not only that, but it would synergize well with Towering Barrier and potentially Heat Transfer. With Aegis, Towering Barrier 5, and Chronos III, his shield could have a minimum cooldown of 3.15 seconds. Now, that may sound overpowered, but it only happens if your shield is completely broken; and even then, it would take 2400 credits to buy Chronos III and get to that amount of cooldown reduction in the first place, which isn't going to happen unless you focus all of your credits solely on Chronos the entire game.


    Scorch: Flame Lance's burning effect is completely overhauled: rather than applying a flat 200 damage burn over 2 seconds whenever Flame Lance hits an enemy, Fernando will apply a burn with a duration that gradually stacks from his attacks and abilities.
    Enemies that are burning will take 20 damage every .2 seconds.
    Flame Lance will apply 0.2 seconds of burning for every 0.1 seconds that it is fired at the enemy.
    Fireball will apply 1 second of burning to every enemy hit.
    Charge will apply 2 seconds of burning to every enemy hit.
    The burn duration can stack up to a total of 10 seconds, potentially dealing a maximum of 1000 damage over the duration.

    Now on to Scorch. Back in the day, Scorch used to be the universal talent for Fernando because it gave additional base damage to his Fireball which could then have its cooldown halved by Incinerate. This gave him a very powerful damage tool on a 3 second cooldown that also had a special niche of dealing big damage to enemies that are either bunched up or in a line. When they removed the base damage increase, it made the talent extremely situational because after that point, only the niche remained where it would deal more damage to enemies if they were lined up. This talent rework would make Fernando extremely fun to play with a stacking burn to all of his attacks. It increases all of his base damage, but not for free. In order to capitalize on the talent, Fernando would have to utilize his kit to keep the enemy team burning as much as he can rather than just giving him an instant flat bonus to one of his attacks like what it did before. It would also allow him to make sure enemies don't get out-of-combat healing as much as they would otherwise since the burn can last for up to 10 seconds.


    Formidable: Immortal now grants CC immunity to allies, charges 15% faster, and heals both you and your allies for 25% max health over 1 second after it ends.
    Last but certainly not least, Formidable. I've said this before in another thread; the current Formidable is weird. It lets him survive every once in a while, but that's it. The idea of talents is to provide a huge change in how you play, so having a talent that saves you once and then does absolutely nothing else for 45 seconds is incredibly jarring. I know that ultimate-based talents do basically the same thing, but the difference is that ultimates are under the player's full control, rather than being used automatically like what the old Formidable did. This talent would still be somewhat situational, but still useful for those who want to buy Morale Boost to save their teammates frequently from potential team wipes and afterwards with its healing burst. Also, the constant ult charge increase is always good.


    Please reply and tell me what you think of these talent reworks. I really appreciate all feedback.

    Skye: "So, if Paladins has breasts...

    Sombra: "And Overwatch has butts..."

    Skye: "...then what does TF2 have?"

    Spy: "Legs."

  2. #2
    Beta Player Grand Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2,635
    Level
    65
    Points: 9,451, Level: 65
    Level completed: 34%, Points required for next Level: 199
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester 5000 Experience Points Forum Tier 3 1 year registered
    Fernando is not weak, he is average now, but no fun to play anymore cause what made him unique got removed. The fun thing was indeed to hit more than one champs with the fireball and get additional damage and running-speed for this.

    I am not fully convinced of those changes. New Aegis seems to make Nando into a shield bot, since all he can do when using his shield is standing around. It's a bit like Khan's most hated talent: Lian's shield. Aegis should be removed. The new scorch, I doubt they would accept a skill that kills you 10 seconds after escaping the fight. Effective because out of combat heal is blocked but very frustrating.

    Formidable sounds fun. Difficult to utilize because the radius is so small but sure interesting to try. Might be a gamebreaker at pro play.

  3. #3
    Beta Player Duke Conrad_Max's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    United States of America.
    Posts
    1,782
    Level
    100
    Points: 42,342, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester Tagger First Class 25000 Experience Points 1 year registered Forum Tier 4 Forum Tier 3
    I use Fernando as a protector, not a killer. As a defense, not offense.

    He doesn't need to kill as long as he can protect the capture point and protect the team while pushing the payload.
    The way you play the game is the way you live your life.

    I play Paladins: Champions of the Realm on my hardwired and mic'd PlayStation 4.

    We are the "balance".


    Paladins Strike ID - ConradMax.

    Realm Royale


    "Thank you, Support!"

    Support Ticket: https://www.hirezstudios.com/submit-support-ticket/

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Grand Prince Borvik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    3,145
    Level
    88
    Points: 19,415, Level: 88
    Level completed: 13%, Points required for next Level: 435
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester Tagger First Class Overdrive 1 year registered 10000 Experience Points Forum Tier 4
    Moved to Front-Line Balance.
    *Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.*

    Wondering why a thread was closed or deleted? Check out the Forum's Code of Conduct.




  5. #5
    Beta Player Baronet Vampragon43's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    The Realm
    Posts
    175
    Level
    63
    Points: 9,005, Level: 63
    Level completed: 85%, Points required for next Level: 45
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester Tagger First Class 5000 Experience Points Forum Tier 3 1 year registered
    Thanks everyone for the feedback. I appreciate it all.

    Skye: "So, if Paladins has breasts...

    Sombra: "And Overwatch has butts..."

    Skye: "...then what does TF2 have?"

    Spy: "Legs."

  6. #6
    Beta Player Count
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    THE LAND OF SCORCHED EARTH (AUS)
    Posts
    650
    Level
    39
    Points: 3,871, Level: 39
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 79
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester Tagger Second Class Forum Tier 2 1000 Experience Points 1 year registered
    Fern really ought to get CC immunity during shield as a talent.

    Because... WHAT IS THE POINT OF A SHIELD WHEN IT GETS DROPPED BEFORE IT CAN NEGATE DAMAGE.

    I enjoy playing Nando, but as more and more characters in the game get control moves which counters your team defense move, what is the point of using it as a defense move at all? It really should not be that easy to disable.

    Ash, Inara, Mal, Io, Jenos, Khan have abilities that deny the shield effectivenss altogether at the touch of a button.

    Makoa, Atlas, Mal, possess traits that would be able to drop the shield if conditions are met.

    Ferns shield is good enough at blocking CC as it is. But all the shield piercing CC nowadays highlights a problem with Nando, posessing no way to truely self recover after being subjected to shield counter, only option is to burst immortal.

    It is not all that powerful as a talent either. Inara has a 5s cc immune and can attack, grohk has the same.
    Being upto 10s cc immune, without the ability to attack is a talent that provides no easy shut downs, and some solid armour to fight insta shield percing control moves and ults, like molotov, void grip, rally here.

    Another talent idea is if Immortal provided Fern with self healing allowing him to endure on his own steam rather then synergize with healers to survive. Cause Fernando's ult in a team sense is strong, using it only for yourself is a bit lackluster, especially if the support not able to provide the healing needed.

  7. #7
    Beta Player Baronet Vampragon43's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    The Realm
    Posts
    175
    Level
    63
    Points: 9,005, Level: 63
    Level completed: 85%, Points required for next Level: 45
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester Tagger First Class 5000 Experience Points Forum Tier 3 1 year registered
    Quote Originally Posted by AyyDimitri View Post
    Another talent idea is if Immortal provided Fern with self healing allowing him to endure on his own steam rather then synergize with healers to survive. Cause Fernando's ult in a team sense is strong, using it only for yourself is a bit lackluster, especially if the support not able to provide the healing needed.
    This is exactly what I did with Formidable. Basically, after Immortal ends, it will give 25% maximum health to all nearby allies, as well as Fernando himself.

    Skye: "So, if Paladins has breasts...

    Sombra: "And Overwatch has butts..."

    Skye: "...then what does TF2 have?"

    Spy: "Legs."

  8. #8
    Beta Player Count
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    THE LAND OF SCORCHED EARTH (AUS)
    Posts
    650
    Level
    39
    Points: 3,871, Level: 39
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 79
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester Tagger Second Class Forum Tier 2 1000 Experience Points 1 year registered
    I would rather go with sustain healing for just Fern during the ult as a talent.

    I'd prefer better player power over team synergy here, because it's team synergy is already insane enough with good allies, however used alone it feels lackluster and is countered easily after it expires.

    For synergy sake, why would the team need a team wide CC immunity when they are already immortal, making them pretty durable vs cc anyway.

    All a Team Wide CC immunity would bring is stronger team diving power for a moment. As it stands CC is a good (and only) counter to the damage immunity Fern gives his team as it shuts down half the time they have.

    In the case of allies gaining %25HP after immortal expires... I see how it works, but I don't think that it is talent worthy, even with the CC immunity.
    It does not make up for his flaws.

    Draging a fight on for an extra 4s and shutting down all damage briefly is already pleanty of Defence for allies, its current synergy with most Supports heals at high tiers of caut is amazing. (Grover + Fern Ult = TEAM BLISS)

    Immortal without any healing value, or support assistance at all makes Fern a sitting duck.

    Which is why I preach for a self sustain heal during Immortal Talent because a last second stand ult should not have to draw upon and exhaust a supports recovery options as much as Fern does during his standard Ult.
    His own 600-800HP/sec for 4s would be a hell of alot better then it is now.
    Fernando could still be cauterised during this ult, same way Grover can, so its power does get scaled back a bit with caut.

    Combine that with an active Shield during Immortal to prevent caut and gain more healing though Cards while below Half HP. Now enemies need to brake or get around the shield to apply caut.... or a molotov.

    Immortal struggles land kills with its slow value unless it gets amped with speed buffs, most players should be able to walk back to counter it unless they are cornered.

  9. #9
    Beta Player Grand Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    2,635
    Level
    65
    Points: 9,451, Level: 65
    Level completed: 34%, Points required for next Level: 199
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester 5000 Experience Points Forum Tier 3 1 year registered
    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad_Max View Post
    I use Fernando as a protector, not a killer. As a defense, not offense.

    He doesn't need to kill as long as he can protect the capture point and protect the team while pushing the payload.
    This only works on low ranks. On higher ranks you get counter picks like stun Terminus or commander grab Khan. A Drogoz or Dredge can destroy the Nando shield with one salvo. This play-style might work with the reworked aegis though.

    Quote Originally Posted by AyyDimitri View Post
    It is not all that powerful as a talent either. Inara has a 5s cc immune and can attack, grohk has the same.
    Being upto 10s cc immune, without the ability to attack is a talent that provides no easy shut downs, and some solid armour to fight insta shield percing control moves and ults, like molotov, void grip, rally here.
    That would be a nice buff for Aegis, shield provides CC-imunity. So it can only be destroyed but not that easily canceled. Not sure though if it is fun to play against this Aegis-Nando blocking the objective 24/7.
    Last edited by M3RC3N4RI0; 07-06-2019 at 12:01 PM.

  10. #10
    Beta Player Duke Conrad_Max's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    United States of America.
    Posts
    1,782
    Level
    100
    Points: 42,342, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Achievements:
    Closed Beta Tester Tagger First Class 25000 Experience Points 1 year registered Forum Tier 4 Forum Tier 3
    Quote Originally Posted by M3RC3N4RI0 View Post
    This only works on low ranks. On higher ranks you get counter picks like stun Terminus or commander grab Khan. A Drogoz or Dredge can destroy the Nando shield with one salvo. This play-style might work with the reworked aegis though.
    In cases like that, I always urge my team to stop Terminus and Khan. If I have a good team, it usually works. But more often than not, each member of the team, whether in casual or ranked, go off and do their own thing. Then the match seems to be a one versus nine battle.

    Semi-off topic: If the opposing team is bad, it can be an easy win, yet not very satisfying. If both teams are good, it's a great and long battle that is very satisfying, no matter who the winner is. Two great teams and one simple mistake.
    The way you play the game is the way you live your life.

    I play Paladins: Champions of the Realm on my hardwired and mic'd PlayStation 4.

    We are the "balance".


    Paladins Strike ID - ConradMax.

    Realm Royale


    "Thank you, Support!"

    Support Ticket: https://www.hirezstudios.com/submit-support-ticket/

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •