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Thread: Save Paladins from death before it's too late.

  1. #1
    Beta Player Baronet driggydrug's Avatar
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    Save Paladins from death before it's too late.

    I wanted to be optimistic and positive but my hope is basically dead now.
    Paladins keeps losing players, steam chars are always bad, numbers are always red, peak players becomes lower with every update.
    What makes me upset is that devs know what is the problem, they're aware of the bad gameplay that paladins has.
    I know there are many other problems like bugs, dropframes, bad matchmaking but I want to focus more on other gameplay aspects like BAD BALANCEMENT, CHARACTERS DESIGN, MAP DESIGN and why not.. GRAPHICS.
    Why is the game "downgrading" instead of "upgrading" ?
    Why are devs and AOC hiding from the truth? Why they ignore the main problems?
    Balancement is terrible, I don't know what evilmojo tells to aoc on meetings but it seems that they only care of numbers like winrate, pickrate, banrate etc...
    It seems that they don't care if a character has too much burst, it's boring to play, it's frustrating and unfun to deal with, it's too easy to play, abilities are bad designed. Why the **** do you ignore theese factors?
    Example, lian and cassie received isignificant nerfs that don't change their problems at all, they're still too bursty and hard to counter. Evilmojo says: "their pickrate is already low" or "we don't want to kill a character that people love".
    The only thing I like about cassie and lian is their design, but the fact that they're burst is insane and they're very easy to play makes them awful characters.
    Another big problem is TimeToKill and Mobility.
    Many patches like ob54, ob62 or ob68 reduced character's HP and mobility, theese nerfs were always compensated with damage buffs. Why were this changed bad?

    -they made the TimeToKill way too low, which makes the gameplay awful

    -they turned a lot of flankers into spammy damage dealers ( http://forums.paladins.com/showthrea...game-buff-them! )

    -they turned a lot of supports into healbots, fragile characters that heal a lot but die very easly unless they're protected well by the team (http://forums.paladins.com/showthrea...BF%BD-healbots)

    -they reduced the skill-cap of many hard characters that are now braindead, spammy or just too easy.

    Probably the intention of hirez is to make the game more casual and noob friendly, but in this way they just make the gameplay frustrating and boring.
    Low TimeToKill and Low mobility are a problem.
    Paladins' characters have huge hitboxes, fast projectiles (because of reduced skill cap, before ob53 projectile were much slower) , a lot of CC skills like slow and cripple, reveal abilties and even aimbot abilties. We're supposed to get higher time to kill and high mobility but instead we have a damage based meta, bursty characters, bursty talents, slow characters with bad/mediocre/ inexistent mobility and everything is combined with a very low skill cap.
    People have been asking for an higher ttk since ob53, when projectile speed was buffed, but they're completely ignoring the low ttk, damage meta, low mobility problem.
    Evilmojo, we're not asking for unkillable characters with 20000 HP and hypermobility back.
    We want a good compromize between the current low TimeToKill + bad mobility and Very high ttk + hypermobility.
    We know that unkillable characters are frustrating to fight, we know that hypermobility is bad for console players so find a good way to solve this problems PLEASE!
    Example? Bombking with old accelerant was insane, 60% increased knockback was literally a free excape but poppy bomb without any mobility talent instead is a bad mobility skill compared to many other sticky jumpers from other games (like demoman from tf2).
    What to do?? Bring back old accelerant but nerf the knockback to 40% and add a 500 self damage that forces the player to use poppy in a smart way.
    Listening at old players and pros that know the game well improves the game A LOT! Ofc devs should also care of what new players think but making paladins a boring, easy and repetitive game is wrong!
    In conclusion, please take care of how the character feels, don't look at winrate and pickrate only... talk more about the low ttk and low mobility problem please, it must be solved as soon as possible.
    Give us:

    More HP and mobility buffs and more damage nerfs, expecially for flankers and supports

    More unique mobility talents/playstyles like OTM, rouge gambit and infinite roll cassie and less boring bursty things like vivian, impulse and big game cassie and delibitate skye

    More high skill ceeling characters with slow projectiles that requires good aim and gamesense

    More community requests should be taken into consideration.
    You did well with andro and lex, can you do the same for evie, buck, torvald and many other characters?

    *Maps design, skins and character design and graphic problems*

    My question is : WILL EVILMOJO CHANGE ENGINE?? If yes, will evilmojo reconsider old graphics?
    Graphics and maps two years ago were much more detailed , shiny , colorful and realistic... textures were awesome, expecialy on maps like serpent beach and jaguar falls.
    Sunbeams were shiny and bright , they made the ambient and the characters colorful and realistic.
    The animations also looked more fluid, ice walls on ice maps had high shiny phongboosts, lighting was colorful and amazing.
    Maps were also much more detailed, there were more trees, bushes, natural elements and more, they looked awesome even with low graphics.
    Invisible characters like skye and shalin had a better steath color, they weren't only transparent.
    Unfortunately beautiful maps like playload ones are gone, the others are now more empty and less detailed.
    Some were changed in terms of gameplay and now they feel awful to play in. Timber mill and frozen guard were changed in a bad way in ob68... timber mil had already problems with snipers and flank routes, why did hirez closed flank routes completely and added more cover for snipers?? This map is now hated and banned by everyone.
    Frozen guard has still problems with skybox and invisible walls... why the **** did they open ANOTHER flank route when we already have an open one??
    My issues with maps aren't only the bad changes and graphic problems.
    The maps feel so limited compared to overwatch ones, most of them are really open and poor of highground and secret spots, you should work more on them.
    Make them detailed and realistic again, fix invisible walls, add more spots and places to go. High quality maps and graphics will attract more players.

    What about skins?? Old paladins had also different skins.
    More recolors, weapon skins and accessories that could be combined with everything thanks to part and pieces that allowed you to combine different part of body (accessories, body and weapon).
    The design was simple but nice, there weren't a lot of epic skins...
    Now skins are changed but they have some problems.
    Some of them don't fit the style of maps, some of them don't look the default champion (cottontail seris is an example) and the few remaining recolors and accessories can't be combined anymore because of missing part and pieces system and other recolors removed.
    Many old players like me want more simple design skins like 2 years ago, try to please all players.
    I would be awesome to have part and pieces only on recolor skins and rare skins, they were created to make more combinations of different colors right??
    I know that part and pieces can't return for epic skins, I know that epic skins should be only a single piece.
    But please reconsider old design for skins, try to please old players too.. bring back old recolors and keep making simple skins like rare ones, try to add part and pieces where it's possible, it would improve customization a lot!

    My last problem are removed features that should comeback and new features that could make the game better.
    A lot of useful and intereting features were removed, I still don't get why because they were nice to see and they also improved the gameplay.

    Why no more shalin illusions?? There are many things that can result "confusing" for new players (like atlas shield, terminus siphon, items, some effects like CC, loadouts) but shalin illusions were absolutely fine.
    They were predictable, extericaly nice and well animated ...why did they removed them?
    There is no HP bar on them, no dmg numbers and they don't move... how can they be confusing??
    Bring them back pls, or at least during heat haze.

    Stealth bushes.
    They weren't that useful but neither confusing...
    New players were confused just because nothing was explained in the tutorial, there is only a little part that talks about them.
    So.. no stealth grass wasn't confusing.. it just needs to be mentioned in the tutorial
    It can also be more useful and "strategic" if added in better spots and maps, maybe by giving them more effects except stealth.
    Why deleting them?? The only cons they had is that they were barely used but they didn't bother anyone.
    They had potential , they just needed some work.

    Signs on enemies
    They were little adivices that told you what effect you applied on an enemy.
    If you shoot to someone and you have caut you'll see *cauterize , same thing with *stun *knockback and more.
    At least add an option that ables and disables them, they're rly useful imo.

    Why no more payload and survival?? Give them another chance, a lot of players would like to play them again instead of TDM and onsalught.
    And as I said before payload maps were awesome, it's a shame deleting them.

    Why no prerework grohk skin and cassie bow?
    Everyone received a prerework skin (skye, barik, viktor, ruckus, kinessa) but grohk and cassie didn't get anything.

    A very useful thing that I'd like to have in paladins is queue restrictions like characters bans and map selections.
    There should be an option for players that don't want to play in certain maps or against some characters.
    Add at least 2 character bans for casual, add a map selection like the tf2 one (so I can disable shattered desert lol)

    Last thing last, customizable portrait.
    I think we should be able to customize our champion's portait near the HP bar.
    So... except the default one , the one with blue blackground , we should be able to swap to a "beta" one, the one with white background.
    So add a beta portrait for every PRE OB62 champion (beta portrait should be available only for beta players)
    I would use the beta lex for sure because the actual one has a deformed face lol, but I won't never swap to beta evie because she was so ugly!
    Add also a portrait for skin owners.
    Example: if I'm using troublemaker skin I should be able to swap to a troublemaker portrait or keep the default/beta one.
    Don't add too many portraits tho, add a portrait only for old epic skins (basically the first 2 epic skins that a champion received should also get a portrait, 1 only for recent champions like koga or dredge)
    Add a customizable portrait for recolors and uncommon/rare skins(like alley cat , bravado, cangaceiro)

    I've finished.
    This game can still be saved, share this thread, spread it everywhere PLEASE! Evilmojo is a really good company, they're creative and kind , they just need to focus more on the main problems.
    I hope EM will read this, I hope they won't ignore us, I want to play my favourite game again and I'm pretty sure that none want paladins to die in this way.

  2. #2
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    Stealth Bushes were a nice feature to characters who had limited mobility options.
    They were in dire need of reworking but it was just dropped.
    Evil Mojo has a bad habbit of not knowing how to balence something so they remove it altogether.
    Bushes were rather flawed in providing stealth, but the main flaw was shields attached to stealthed players would also be hidden. Agies Nando had a funny interaction with the bushes where he could hide in one indefinitely with a shield up, and no one would bother to check the bushes.
    This was really apparent on the Outpost Payload Map affter the 2nd corridor choke, and I think Timber Mill and Frozen Guard had the same problem.
    This is not a problem with the idea of bushes, just thier perfomance in game was poor.
    If they revealed to palyers nearby... probs by taking illuminate, and were no where near the payload roads in order to contest them, they would be perfect for provinding great environmental options for ground and land based champions.

    On Sha, Heat Haze illusions contradicted the Kit altogether vs champions who had options to dive him.
    What is the point of going into stealth if you leave a trail of bread crumbs behind from each position you fired...
    Withdrawl clone return... debateable... having a reposition with stealth is pretty jarring to follow in a duel, a clone offers that bit of time to adjust to which direction to follow Sha, after it was removed Sha became a much harder to track and dive at the expense of less duration on stealth.
    However I see why it was removed. If Sha was in a duel and use withdraw with a clone, for awhile any player would be able to see it, and know that Sha would be easy to dive for the next few moments with not much Sha can do other then Damage his way out. Your mobility ability should not tell the entire emey team that your mobility is on CD.
    However there are ways to make the withdrawl clone return, make it have stealth and only last 1.5s, so only that foes in CQC combat with Sha have a brief window to see the clone but not from afar, allowing players to get some sense of which direction to blindfire.
    Characters with illumiate may be able to see the clone from further away before they get to see Sha.
    Sha having an instant lose focus ability combined with a 1k projectile with little ability to counter is a bit much if there is no ability to read. But I guess that is what illumiante, reveals and mobility are for.

    Honestly I you want to vouch for greater mobility across the game, I would say that the game needs to adopt more options to shut down potential mobility before its activated.
    Allowing the game to have more impressive mobility should be met with the ability to counter and deny it just as well.
    Cripples are one one of my favourite status effect (Unless we are talking about Jenos), when tied to positioning or skill shot mechanics they feel fair enough to die by.
    It's not bad to have characters such as flyers like drogoz, or Evie with 2 mobility moves for defence.
    These ARE GOOD CONCEPTS that make unique champs people want to play, the fact that these guys suffer vs Cripples means that it works fairly as a status effect, countering the foundations of what mobility champs depend upon is bliss.
    It's a pity it is not seen as a power that should be talent worthy.

    Map design has been getting pretty basic of late.
    Sure there are some good long angles, high grounds, corners and chokes to work with.
    But nothing is done about the following issues such as spawn camping, recovery zones outside of needing a support to heal allies.
    Some solid map engineering aspects could resolve these issues.
    Base Turrets would creates some spacing from the Spawn.
    Rooms with a weak passive heal or faster out of combat time field would create some rallying points to hold up or retreat to.

  3. #3
    Beta Player Duke Conrad_Max's Avatar
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    I'm here. There's is nothing to worry about.

    Changes and suggestions are always good. But the fact of the matter is that many new players, including some veterans, do not use the geography and enviorment to their, or the team's, advantage. It's not the designer's fault, but that of the team's inability to communicate and work together.

    Sad, yet funny.
    Last edited by Conrad_Max; 07-05-2019 at 05:29 PM.
    The way you play the game is the way you live your life.

    I play Paladins: Champions of the Realm on my hardwired and mic'd PlayStation 4.

    We are the "balance".


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    Beta Player Grand Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad_Max View Post
    It's not the designer's fault, but that of the team's inability to communicate and work together.
    Yeah. If a game isn't sold it's not the fault of the game designers but of the players who don't buy it.

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    Beta Player Duke Conrad_Max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3RC3N4RI0 View Post
    Yeah. If a game isn't sold it's not the fault of the game designers but of the players who don't buy it.
    Exactly what was I referring to that brought about your response? Your reply had nothing to do with what I had posted.

    Thank you, by the way.
    The way you play the game is the way you live your life.

    I play Paladins: Champions of the Realm on my hardwired and mic'd PlayStation 4.

    We are the "balance".


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    Beta Player Grand Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad_Max View Post
    Thank you, by the way.
    My pleasure.

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    "Players do not use the geography and enviorment to their, or the team's, advantage"

    Sorry comrade, you are going to have to state that again and provide an example, cause I'm a bit confused. Shooters are entirely based around environment.

    If a player is not conforming around the rules of the environment, they are put at a disadvantage or putting others at a disadvantage. (E.g the use of choke points, windows, ledges, kill walls, high grounds, elevators, box cover, stairways, payload track, capture point, sidelines, sight lines, vantage points, roof tops, base doors, teleporters, crutial parts of the map.)

    Hell even using a wall as cover is a synergy with the environment, knowing that you are close enough to dash to cover is another, knowing a good angle to heal or snipe are some more, jumping off a high ground for additional mobility again another. So if a player is not using the environment.... wat...

    My point was the environment in certian maps could do with added features to correct some flaws, these feature can be more then just walls and cover.

    Hell an elevator on timber mill would be more realistc then the teleporter with the massive ramp alongside it.
    Base turrets on spitstone an Jaguar would be great for some base defense given how close cover is to these spawn.

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    Curiously left unmentioned:

    North America servers are populated by literally every other country on Earth except North Americans.
    Don't turn this into a racist thing: I just want to be able to communicate with my teammates, and I don't speak Spanish, Russian, Korean or Tagalog

    Those who do speak English can't / don't communicate. I've not once found anyone using voice chat, other than to troll

    These #$*^ "challenges" that cause waves of multiple healers or other selfish picks that may be "fun", but are pointless, strategy-wise.

    And, on that point, using the excuse "hey, it's just Casual!" - well, Ranked is eternally broken.
    "Look, I just now got my 15th Champion to level 5 in the Training Arena and now I'm ready to play Talus (only) at Diamond Level!". There is literally no point in being frustrated by the same unintelligible internet cafe orphans while losing Ranked levels, when I can do it in Casual.

    Here's the deal: I am not complaining, not really. All of these things are related to revenue, trying to scrape every centavo and ruble they can, because the game isn't making money. And that means a death spiral that no amount of complaining can fix.

    And that's why I'm now a permanent sniper.

  9. #9
    Beta Player Esquire OROSPU's Avatar
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    Everything was op back then...now its so balanced that some characters are more op than others.
    Peak Master ( S1 - Split 1)

    Season 1 - Diamond

    Professional Flank and E-sport player crusher


    OROSPU


    800x600 40 fps gang

  10. #10
    Beta Player Duke Conrad_Max's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BondTemporax View Post
    Curiously left unmentioned:

    North America servers are populated by literally every other country on Earth except North Americans.
    Is that really true? Then, I guess, you and I are the only North Americans playing this game.

    If you have friends who speak your language, you can always schedule your games together. And if you don't have friends, you can always make some. Heck, I get a lot of friend requests when I play. The main bad thing about them is that they don't know how to play as a team. (sigh)
    The way you play the game is the way you live your life.

    I play Paladins: Champions of the Realm on my hardwired and mic'd PlayStation 4.

    We are the "balance".


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