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Thread: The 2 tank meta

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    Beta Player Grand Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    The 2 tank meta

    Quite a while ago, when all support champs got their HP nerfed, I assumed that this would kill the 2 tanks meta, because after that 3 champs of a standard meta team (2 tanks and 1 support) are unattractive champs. While only 2 champs are attractive, the flank and the damage. At least on gold and platin rank it seems this happened now.

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    Super Moderator Emperor Wallachia's Avatar
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    Okay.

    And then?
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    Member Viscount DaddyOoker's Avatar
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    I'm in Gold on both my accounts and I post ranked matches here and there. If you notice almost every match has two front lines and one support. I don't see much change there. I see changes in the bans as champs get buffed, nerfed and added.

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    Beta Player Grand Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallachia View Post
    Okay.

    And then?
    My impression is that the matches get less balanced because there is a good chance one team has a not working combination like tanks but no support. In general I see it as a good think because I don't have to play stupid tanks anymore or even supports. I simply pick the champ I want, except I am last pick and there is no healer. I just pick 3rd or 4th damage/flank without being harassed (not even if the chat is working ^^). Ranked becomes similar to casual.

    @DaddyOoker
    I checked my last 10 matches. 3 teams in those matches had 2 tanks. 17 teams didn't (2 of them had 3 tanks). So it seems my impression is not just my imagination.
    Last edited by M3RC3N4RI0; 07-01-2019 at 04:24 PM.

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    Member Baron buoy's Avatar
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    I don't quite understand why 2 supports is bad but 2 frontliners is good?

    they both end up increasing the ttk, no?

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    Beta Player Grand Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buoy View Post
    I don't quite understand why 2 supports is bad but 2 frontliners is good?
    Because 2 supports can be countered with cauterize.

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    Member Viscount DaddyOoker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3RC3N4RI0 View Post
    @DaddyOoker
    I checked my last 10 matches. 3 teams in those matches had 2 tanks. 17 teams didn't (2 of them had 3 tanks). So it seems my impression is not just my imagination.
    Could be a region thing or even time of day.

    Played two ranked matches on main account last night. Both had 2 tanks on both teams.
    The one prior to those was also 2v2. To look for more matches means going back 23 days so I didn't bother.

    Looking at the last 16 ranked matches on my other account.
    23 teams had 2 front
    8 teams had 1 front
    1 team had 0 front

    Regardless of what you are seeing, the win rate for my matches where there were 2v1 front, the 2 front had 70% win rate over the single front.

    BTW, I was the cause of one of the 1 front line scenarios because I refused to front when I saw the first pick was a Grohk and I was suspicious it would be a dmg.

    Quote Originally Posted by buoy View Post
    I don't quite understand why 2 supports is bad but 2 frontliners is good?

    they both end up increasing the ttk, no?
    Most ranked I've had with 2v1 front line I find that the 1 front has a better chance with either an above average "healer" or there are two supports - with one being a primary "healer".
    Last edited by Borvik; 07-02-2019 at 01:17 PM. Reason: Posts merged. Please use the "Edit" or "Multi-Quote" buttons.

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    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    I don't take a statistics, nor I am motivated to go back and check in my game history, however, in general, I see much many ranked games with only 1 or even NO tank in my team. And you know what? We usually win those.
    TTK is so short, that having 2 tanks is a waste of space, when you can instead pick a Vivian and a Cassie, with a Jenos buffing them. I end up at focusing heals on our DDs, than on tanks for the mere reason that you win by keeping DDs alive.
    Double supports (except for dmg Grohk) is not a thing for supports are super good (dmg is ridiculous and cauterize neutralizes their main function), but because one can help tank capping, while the other is constantly buffing and keeping alive DDs. DDs are winning the game, for they are simply too good to be truth.
    Note: here for DDs I consider also many flankers.

    On the fact that "why 2 tanks is ok, but 2 supports is not", I'm still looking for an answer.
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    Member Viscount DaddyOoker's Avatar
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    I can only speak for my own experience. 2 fronts have been having better success in my ranked matches when faced with an enemy that has two fronts. If you want to talk about 1 front vs 1 front then this does not apply. I rarely see a zero front line team in ranked. Like everything there have been exceptions.

    Nothing wrong with 2 supports with 1 front. It "can" work. The one I caused was a win against 2 fronts.

    The issue is the damage output of a support is usually substantially lower than an actual damage champion. I know there are exceptions - I've seen some incredible damage numbers. Usually from Grohks and Pips.

    Really there is nothing wrong with any composition if the players are able to adjust to each other's abilities. If they can't then it's a loss. IMO, this is a major factor.

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    Beta Player Grand Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaddyOoker View Post
    Could be a region thing or even time of day.
    Definitely. But I play at Europe server which is the biggest by far and I play gold/platin rank which are the most played ranks, so I think what I experience counts for most players. It's a point though that the chance that my team has 2 tanks is much higher if I take a 2nd tank what I hardly ever do. There is still the other team though which also mostly has less than 2 tanks.

    I assume that on higher ranks standard meta is played more often.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valkure View Post
    I don't take a statistics, nor I am motivated to go back and check in my game history, however, in general, I see much many ranked games with only 1 or even NO tank in my team. And you know what? We usually win those.
    TTK is so short, that having 2 tanks is a waste of space, when you can instead pick a Vivian and a Cassie, with a Jenos buffing them. I end up at focusing heals on our DDs, than on tanks for the mere reason that you win by keeping DDs alive.
    Double supports (except for dmg Grohk) is not a thing for supports are super good (dmg is ridiculous and cauterize neutralizes their main function), but because one can help tank capping, while the other is constantly buffing and keeping alive DDs.
    A DD+Healer combo will only work against attacking flank/damage as long as those don't have caut III yet. DDs usually don't take rejuve and they have no shields like tanks to get rid of caut. With 2 support teams I have very bad experience. Usually one support plays as damage or both play as damage, but they are not nearly as good as a damage champ and they provoke cauterize. Often both healer together have less heal than the one on the other side.

    Judged by "better meta" the 2 tank + 2 support combos are the best combos with highest winrates against other combinations. Followed by standard meta as 3rd best combination. The 2 support + 2 damage/flank combos clearly lose against the 2 tanks combos.

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