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Thread: Skye suggestion v2

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    Beta Player Marquess KicsitCsicska's Avatar
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    Arrow Skye suggestion v2

    Skye works like a damage dealer champion, I would like to change her kit to make her a flanker. Less ammo, less sealth and more mobility are the main directives.

    She is too mach sealth based champion not like to others whos name bigin with S. So she is counterable by sealth. Mobility isn't counterable and this is what flankers need.

    It contains less changes than my last suggestion about her and these are better thoughtful.



    Skill reworks:


    Renerf the magazine from 25 ammo to 15 ammo. (for the less damage)

    Reduce the cooldown of Hidden from 15s to 10s. (for the more mobility)
    Increase the speed while useing Hidden by 40%. (for the more mobility)
    Reduce the duration of Hidden from 7.5s to 5s. (it's needed because of the increased speed)

    Increase the cooldown of Pison Bolts from 8s to 10s. (for the less damage)



    Card changes:


    Reduce the bonus of Cloak from {1|1}s to {0.5|0.5}s. (for same reason as why reduce the base duration of Hidden)
    Rework Decrepify: Poison slows the effected enemies by {5|5}% for 4s. (no more ammo)
    Emergency Exit: You automatically activates Hidden when you drop below 40% Health. This effect can happen once every 60/30/20/15/10 sec. (Less sealth and more mobility)
    Nimble Fingers: Reduce its duration from 5s to 2s. (This card was even OP before Decrepify endless ammo, it would be OP again, especially bec of the smaller magaizne)
    Slip Away: Increase its bonus from {3|3}% to {5|5}%. (this card is realy weak, always substitute by Victory Rush)
    Victory Rush: Reduce its duration from 8s to 5s. (its speed bonus is still too much compared by the similar cards of the other champions)
    Shadow Affinity: Reduce its scaling from {1|1}s to {0.5|0.5}s. (the cooldown reduction is moved into her base kit, this card would be OP with that basicly low cooldown)



    Talent rework idea:


    Smoke and Daggers: You teleports into the middle of your appearing Smoke Screen but it has 3s longer cooldown time. (for even more mobility and this bonus suits to its name, not like the heals)
    Last edited by KicsitCsicska; 06-28-2019 at 07:00 AM. Reason: Upgraded
    Thanks for reading my post!

  2. #2
    Member Baronet Smokin Oats's Avatar
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    Why didn’t you just attach this to my suggestion which it is directly under this post?

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    Beta Player Marquess KicsitCsicska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokin Oats View Post
    Why didn’t you just attach this to my suggestion which it is directly under this post?
    There are some primer suggestions, and these need card changes. E.g. If the 5s Hidden could be buffed to 10s it would be OP.
    It also contains balance changes, like Slip Away was underpowered ever while Victory Rush was OP ever. These should be fixed too.
    Barik had tons of changes as well last time.
    Thanks for reading my post!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KicsitCsicska View Post
    Skye works like a damage dealer champion, I would like to change her kit to make her a flanker. Less ammo, less sealth and more mobility are the main directives.

    She is too mach sealth based champion not like to others whos name bigin with S. She she is counterable by sealth. Mobility isn't counterable and this is what flankers need.

    It contains less changes than my last suggestion about her and these are better thoughtful.



    Skill reworks:


    Renerf the magazine from 25 ammo to 15 ammo. (for the less damage)

    Reduce the cooldown of Hidden from 15s to 10s. (for the more mobility)
    Increase the speed while useing Hidden by 40%. (for the more mobility)
    Reduce the duration of Hidden from 7.5s to 5s. (it's needed because of the increased speed)

    Increase the cooldown of Pison Bolts from 8s to 10s. (for the less damage)



    Card changes:


    Reduce the bonus of Cloak from {1|1}s to {0.5|0.5}s. (for same reason as why reduce the base duration of Hidden)
    Rework Decrepify: Poison slows the effected enemies by {5|5}% for 4s. (no more ammo)
    Emergency Exit: You automatically activates Hidden when you drop below 40% Health. This effect can happen once every 60/30/20/15/10 sec. (Less sealth and more mobility)
    Nimble Fingers: Reduce its duration from 5s to 2s. (This card was even OP before Decrepify endless ammo, it would be OP again, especially bec of the smaller magaizne)
    Slip Away: Increase its bonus from {3|3}% to {5|5}%. (this card is realy weak, always substitute by Victory Rush)
    Victory Rush: Reduce its duration from 8s to 5s. (its speed bonus is still too much compared by the similar cards of the other champions)
    Shadow Affinity: Reduce its scaling from {1|1}s to {0.5|0.5}s. (the cooldown reduction is moved into her base kit, this card would be OP with that basicly low cooldown)



    Talent rework idea:


    Smoke and Daggers: You teleports into the middle of your appearing Smoke Screen but it has 3s longer cooldown time. (for even more mobility and this bonus suits to its name, not like the heals)
    the change on Victory rush i can agree with, but the change on her ammo clip, Poison bolts and Decrepify will kill her other talents. Preparation still exists and is viable becuz of the Decrepify rework to give ammo. The nrew decrepify u suggested is also terrible. Skye poisons doesnt have slow in her poisons by default so adding another passive ability in a loadout card doesnt make sense. She needs the clip to duel flanks and dmg dealers and she needs decrepify to keep the pressure up at mid range becuz without Debilitate all flanks and dmg dealers have more dps than her or the mobility to have her miss few important shots which eventually leads her to death right when the clip ends cuz the fight then turns to a 2v1 and skye doesnt have her clip reloaded yet, so nimble fingers at that point doesnt help her that much so she rlly needs to have her ammo intact for many other not easily explainable reasons. The rework idea on smoke and daggers would be weird as a talent becuz it simply changes the function of her ability which all other champs dont have that type of talents. Most of the changes u made negatively impacts Preparation and the healing version of smoke and daggers while Skye this time only has 1 viable talent and the other talents will not have suitable cards to make a viable preparation or a healing version of S&D focused builds. The poisoner card is important to heal skye while the clip and the
    2 cards you nerfed or reworked extremely mandotory to preparation. https://mypaladins.com/player/15336755/potatosnlper Im using this link to show that those cards are needed to run prep and are low tier without them using my skye games. Like always this link has nothing to do with me showing off my skill level, its just to prove my point. You are nerfing Poison bolts becuz of Debilitate, its not that good of an ability without deb, so Debilitate is what needs to be nerfed. You nerfed Debilitate by making it a 5s cooldown from 3s but also gave her base kit speed which would make her a bigger pain in the ass with more mobility on Debilitate. She is now less predictable with that speed and can melt tanks from different angles which would be a pain for a base kit change(also kills Preparation and S&D). Debilitate is what needs a nerf not her base kit or loadouts. This is all that i have to say for the moment. If i have missed anything out ill edit the post for the matter.

  5. #5
    Beta Player Marquess KicsitCsicska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoTAToSNlpEr View Post
    the change on Victory rush i can agree with, but the change on her ammo clip, Poison bolts and Decrepify will kill her other talents. Preparation still exists and is viable becuz of the Decrepify rework to give ammo. The nrew decrepify u suggested is also terrible. Skye poisons doesnt have slow in her poisons by default so adding another passive ability in a loadout card doesnt make sense. She needs the clip to duel flanks and dmg dealers and she needs decrepify to keep the pressure up at mid range becuz without Debilitate all flanks and dmg dealers have more dps than her or the mobility to have her miss few important shots which eventually leads her to death right when the clip ends cuz the fight then turns to a 2v1 and skye doesnt have her clip reloaded yet, so nimble fingers at that point doesnt help her that much so she rlly needs to have her ammo intact for many other not easily explainable reasons. The rework idea on smoke and daggers would be weird as a talent becuz it simply changes the function of her ability which all other champs dont have that type of talents. Most of the changes u made negatively impacts Preparation and the healing version of smoke and daggers while Skye this time only has 1 viable talent and the other talents will not have suitable cards to make a viable preparation or a healing version of S&D focused builds. The poisoner card is important to heal skye while the clip and the
    2 cards you nerfed or reworked extremely mandotory to preparation. https://mypaladins.com/player/15336755/potatosnlper Im using this link to show that those cards are needed to run prep and are low tier without them using my skye games. Like always this link has nothing to do with me showing off my skill level, its just to prove my point. You are nerfing Poison bolts becuz of Debilitate, its not that good of an ability without deb, so Debilitate is what needs to be nerfed. You nerfed Debilitate by making it a 5s cooldown from 3s but also gave her base kit speed which would make her a bigger pain in the ass with more mobility on Debilitate. She is now less predictable with that speed and can melt tanks from different angles which would be a pain for a base kit change(also kills Preparation and S&D). Debilitate is what needs a nerf not her base kit or loadouts. This is all that i have to say for the moment. If i have missed anything out ill edit the post for the matter.
    Thanks for your long comment here!
    This suggestion not just nerf healer Skye (what I suggested to replace anyways) and Preparation Skye, but also nerfs Debilitate similarly. She does not have to duel with anybody, her job is seeking behind the enemies and kill one of them. She can attack the lowest health bar owner enemy too, so she doesn't need much damage for kill. I didnt nerf Pioson bolts bec of Debilitate, but because its OP with the 3s cd as it is. Debilitate isn't a problem already. Poison Bolts are OP also without this talent, because its cd can be reduced from 8s to 3s. Deal melting dmg in every 3s isnt for a flanker. Flanker has no time to position itself in 3s. So she doesn't flanking just wait and use this skill again. This is what I would change. Her talent wouldn't be worse just bec of the lower dmg output, because she would have much more mobility what can not be countered by Illuminate and can help her to stalk, chase and flee. 25 ammo has basicly much more dmg what is needed for a kill even with the dmg of the Poison Bolts and the endless ammo by the Decrepify. It's way too much. If the battle turns to 2v1 she can escape with the skill Hidden what have speed bonus. Dealing against overpower isn't the job of the flankers, damage dealers are designed for deal superior damage. Decrepify's new bonus fits to its avatar and to the mechanic of the poisons. Keep it realistic.
    Debilitate is a little bit better than her other talents. It got the hardest nerf in my suggestion by the Poison Bolt cd increasing. But the mobility buff would make her better in general, this is why all of her talents would be balanced.
    15 shots even without any headshot deals 110*15=1650dmg. She can use Poison Bolts too before she attacks. It deals 2200*0.3=660dmg to a supporter. It is 1650+660=2310dmg (without headshots) what is enaugh to kill a suppoerter with one magazine without reload. Flankers shouldn't be even able to kill a full HP enemy, they are designed for find the weak link, who has low HP and end the job. So this damage is still more than enaugh for her. Anyways Twilight Armor could still reset her magazine to 25 ammo on lvl5. If you realy need it
    The lower base magazine could make sense for pick Twilight Armor and Tactical Reload what are useless right now.
    Last edited by KicsitCsicska; 06-28-2019 at 07:05 AM.
    Thanks for reading my post!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KicsitCsicska View Post
    Thanks for your long comment here!
    This suggestion not just nerf healer Skye (what I suggested to replace anyways) and Preparation Skye, but also nerfs Debilitate similarly. She does not have to duel with anybody, her job is seeking behind the enemies and kill one of them. She can attack the lowest health bar owner enemy too, so she doesn't need much damage for kill. I didnt nerf Pioson bolts bec of Debilitate, but because its OP with the 3s cd as it is. Debilitate isn't a problem already. Poison Bolts are OP also without this talent, because its cd can be reduced from 8s to 3s. Deal melting dmg in every 3s isnt for a flanker. Flanker has no time to position itself in 3s. So she doesn't flanking just wait and use this skill again. This is what I would change. Her talent wouldn't be worse just bec of the lower dmg output, because she would have much more mobility what can not be countered by Illuminate and can help her to stalk, chase and flee. 25 ammo has basicly much more dmg what is needed for a kill even with the dmg of the Poison Bolts and the endless ammo by the Decrepify. It's way too much. If the battle turns to 2v1 she can escape with the skill Hidden what have speed bonus. Dealing against overpower isn't the job of the flankers, damage dealers are designed for deal superior damage. Decrepify's new bonus fits to its avatar and to the mechanic of the poisons. Keep it realistic.
    Debilitate is a little bit better than her other talents. It got the hardest nerf in my suggestion by the Poison Bolt cd increasing. But the mobility buff would make her better in general, this is why all of her talents would be balanced.
    15 shots even without any headshot deals 110*15=1650dmg. She can use Poison Bolts too before she attacks. It deals 2200*0.3=660dmg to a supporter. It is 1650+660=2310dmg (without headshots) what is enaugh to kill a suppoerter with one magazine without reload. Flankers shouldn't be even able to kill a full HP enemy, they are designed for find the weak link, who has low HP and end the job. So this damage is still more than enaugh for her. Anyways Twilight Armor could still reset her magazine to 25 ammo on lvl5. If you realy need it
    The lower base magazine could make sense for pick Twilight Armor and Tactical Reload what are useless right now.
    Why are you asking for the nerf of heal skye and Preparation, the only talent on skye that enables her to flank properly? the two talents are balanced at what they do becuz they have cards that are suitable to have an entire build focused on them. By taking away almost half of her clip, you are making her flank food, meaning if she gets flanked by
    any flanker who has mobility, she dies simple as that(talking about prep btw). Lex is the only one you can kill by yourself unless he has life steal in cards or rmb. Healing is a thing. If the low target gets healed you just end up getting killed becuz hidden is on cooldown and her smoke bomb isn't a big deal of an escape rather than a tool to live for 4 more seconds if the enemy decides to finish u off in a 2v1 burst. Hidden is not an escape ability, it is your flanking tool. If u manage to survive you are basically useless for 15-10s becuz u can't surprise or flank anyone at this point. The 3s cooldown isn't op without debilitate. It's pretty easy to heal up and the full dmg takes 4s to deal it full not 2. You say its op without deb becuz people use it to wait out and use it twice(at least from what I picked up from ur reply). That's false. you are already in position to use hidden cuz the duration is fairly long enough. To explain this, look at it this way. Skyes job is backline, low tanks, and especially supports without deb. Supports aren't at the front but stay safe behind tanks and heal safe without exposing themselves to enemy fire easily. Your dmg dealer will not be able to poke everything for you to flank. The enemy tank will need to be dealt with and your dmg dealer will not make time to poke 300-400 dmg off of BOTH backline and supports just for u to do your job. There could be 2 tanks on their team and your dmger will be even more occupied. I'm bringing up supports becuz they end up healing your target and supports are hardly poked by your dmg dealer for u to flank them for a change. To solve this, you use poison bolts and go hidden same time. Then u reach the supp or backline with another poison and kill him. This method is only for killing supps becuz doing this on a backline won't matter as a support can just heal them and provide 2v1 dmg depending on ur caut level. Hidden is not an option becuz u might as well just used it on cooldown. The dmg of her poisons without deb isn't op. It takes 4s to deal the full dmg. it's easy to heal unlike debilitate insane burst + bonus dmg. There is nothing op about poisons without debilitate. And don't forget that the poions will take 4s to do 660 dmg. The dps is 2197 in 1.5s with poison dmg but with deb is more than 2300 dmg in not 1.5 but less than 1.5s. In high elos, you will hardly get low health players becuz of the new healing system. Evie can't flank easily becuz of this but she can escape easily and keep repeating this process until having enough caut. But for skye she will die if she fails to flank with burst heals. That's why she is played as dmger with debilitate. And that's only one reason decrepify is way too important for prep skye to work. The healers will then be in a position deciding who is more important to waste heals on. She needs the ammo intact to finish off the person the healer doesn't heal. Why do u think Maeve has unlimited ammo? she needs to keep the pressure up on the player while the dmg dealer does dmg to someone else. the healer will have to choose who to save. Maeve will then finish the person who did not get healed. AND THAT, is the reason skye needs decrepify. It is not to kill people but to pressure the healer to make a game changing decision. Skye will then finish the other guy who didn't get heals. This is why decrepify cannot be touched. With debilitate skye doesn't flank, she is a dmg. With prep and lower dmg she needs decrepify and punish the player who doesn't get healed and benefit by getting her resets and escape with hidden+vic rush speed and repeat the flank process. Taking decrepify away will only change her role to a dmg and Debilitate will be her only viable card. She still has no escape on debilitate so she will only function as dmg dealer. Hidden is not escape as I keep saying. it is her flanking tool. But with prep, Hidden is both and much more. What do u think Maeve does when she isn't in position to flank yet? she constantly harasses backline or tanks and waits for her moment to shine and finish the player that doesn't get healed. She also has tons of mobility to aid her to do that job. Just like that Skye needs decrepify untouched or unlimited ammo only into the kit of preparation so that she can harass the backline and tanks constant and wait for her moment to shine. Decrepify is also too good with deb. that's the problem. That is why I suggested reworking decrepify but give unlimited ammo to the kit of preparation to balance the huge tank melt without breaking preparation and her dmg talent debilitate in the long run. It takes experience to understand her issues and what she needs. No offense but I don't think u have any form of experience on skye at all. My proof of that is u think skye deals 110 dmg every clip instead of 130 and u estimated her dps without poison in 1.5s to be 1650 when its 1950. Her dps might seem more now but it isn't. Decrepify needs a rework but if skye doesn't get unlimited ammo in the kit of prep, it's not worth it. Preparation is skyes only flank talent while debilitate still works as dmg talent. The real issue is EM does not want to remove debilitate. the burst can be abused but old S&D and Surprise attack can't be abused of its burst unlike debilitate. There is a fair 15s delay which can be brought down to 10 which is nice as she has no mobility at this point. I have said too much and I might left a few things out so I'll leave them out after u give ur next reply or someone else gives another opinion. I'll try at least.

  7. #7
    Beta Player Marquess KicsitCsicska's Avatar
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    I made it much more simple. I wish it will be acceptable for the developers and solves Skye's main issues what I already listed.

    -Add 25% speed bonus for Hidden.
    -Decrepify: enemies effected by poison bolts can't see sealthed players for {0.8|0.4}s. (It makes illuminate less effective against her. It's good, because illuminate counters her too much.)
    -Poisoner: Reduce its scaling to {0.5|0.5}s.
    -Emergency Exit: You automatically activates Hidden when you drop below 40% Health. This effect can happen once every 60/30/20/15/10 sec.
    -Victory Rush: Reduce its duration from 8s to 5s.
    -Slip Away: Increase its bonus from {3|3}% to {5|5}%.
    -Smoke and Daggers: You teleports into the middle of your appearing Smoke Screen but it has 3s longer cooldown time.
    Thanks for reading my post!

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    Your new suggestion solves her speed but the change on poisoner and Decrepify is terrible. I already described why Decrepify is needed for her to function as a proper flank with prep. Ill just make a new suggestion of my own and see how it pans out to everyone.
    -Debilitate: No longer deals bonus dmg and has a 2s increased cooldown which is 10s without poisoner and 5s with poisoner.
    -Preparation: Now also has unlimited ammo.
    -Decrepify: Hitting poison bolts grant 8/16/24/32/40% lifesteal against the target for 2s.

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