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Thread: Are we just ignoring that Viktor now has a better self-heal than most supports??

  1. #21
    Beta Player Grand Prince M3RC3N4RI0's Avatar
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    In general the ability to quickly change position while healing up seems to be a good idea for a damage class champ. Running around in circles on the point as a damage class - yeah it looks silly.

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    Beta Player Baron DarkSoulEnvoy's Avatar
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    I think simply adding a small cool down and/or making it so he can't run FOREVER would be fine even if the heal/sec stays the same.

  3. #23
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    Man you guys obviously don't play much Fernando...
    You know how this was a poor choice of design for balence?
    Get this.

    I have heard folks like valkure complain so much about fernando that he was nerfed to the floor cause of this community of scrubs who can't learn positioning or to have a path of retreat... now this tank is rendered ineffective by most players standards as he has lost every trick up his sleave, speed, ranged caut, damage, now stands as a weakling.

    Compare the characters.

    Inhand attack damage...
    350dps, plus burn of 100 a sec....
    Viktor sprint 400 hp per sec... +DR
    Ok so without caut I am unable to kill a viktor just running around me, at any range.

    Fernando lost all base kit anti heal...
    Dealing with channeled healing round one is one thing, to do it with a the lowest dps and constant reductions to your antiheal made it impssible to fight inara, grock, ying, or anyone getting a seris heal.
    So Fern needs cauterise, or more damage to get through the healing numbers, and he lost both...
    All Fern cauterise potential is limited to close quarters due to removal base fireball caut and later the removal of brand.

    Viktor runs away easily, turns around and shoots you with very little skill level but with great effect.
    Its annoyingly simple.
    When I am busting my guts to defend my team, pressure the enemy and get a kill. Viktor is somewhat immune to what I can throw at him. Even with caut he can get out of it quite easily and I have to either give chase or be shot by him a few moments after...

    If you run a circle around a dude with a flamethower, you should not be able to run away like that.

    To summerise my understanding of the game, the lowest damage you can do per sec is 400.
    400 hp per sec is a momentary self heal of a frontline tier.
    To be on a damage is just a forced cauterise buy otherwise they will have an advantage in just walking up to you.
    To make that skill have little to no cooldown....
    Yeah these where the people who brought you shell spin makoa.

    Now fern fared quite well vs vik before any of this. Vik could just walk up to him from a vantage and shread nando. Ez. Now nando can't do anything against it with his nerfs and the buffs to vik, but cardio viktor outright tanks through a tanks dps.

    Don't get me started on how torvald and inara suffer a bit of the same fate.

  4. #24
    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    Funny. I never wrote a thread on Fernando. I probably just wrote a post in a thread already opened by others. Funny also that all my posts and threads on supports are unnoticed, but the time I write on Fernando, HiRez immediately runs to nerf him.
    Or maybe... or maybe stats showed that Fernando was high pick and high win rate on whatever tier and that's why HiRez nerfed him. By the way, he got nerfed once and he was ok (even if I'd personally had nerfed something else, than his shielding potential). Then no one asked for further nerf and they've nerfed him again. It's incredible the influence I have on HiRez when I don't speak! Maybe I should stop speaking about supports, so they would finally be unnerfed!

    However, for getting a 360° idea on the game, I suggest you to play not only with guys of 3000+HP, with shields and a healer glued to their butt for the whole game, but with those with low HP, dmg, mobility and that can't kill in 1vs1 anyone belonging to another class, no matter the low HP of the enemy.
    So, pick healing loadout on a Seris, a Ying, a Furia, whatever, and try to kill Viktor. Or to escape him. Good luck.
    I've finally found it!

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  5. #25
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    Val, for the upteenth time.
    Yes I play other characters other then frontlines.

    The fact that I am listing a comparason between the two characters, and provinding a situation where a damage can be semi constantly almost immune to an inhand attack weapon and all offensive abilites that character has, is me stating that I have serious gripes about all round balence.
    REGARDLESS OF WHAT I CHOOSE TO PLAY, OR WHAT I CHOOSE TO IDENTIFY MYSELF AS A PLAYER.

    Everytime I come here talking about frontlines and balence reletive to other classes I have to endure a lecture such as (However, for getting a 360° idea on the game, I suggest you to play not only with guys of 3000+HP, with shields and a healer glued to their butt for the whole game, but with those with low HP, dmg, mobility and that can't kill in 1vs1 anyone belonging to another class, no matter the low HP of the enemy.)
    It is very narrow minded for you to think like this, and it does upset me that you act like such a prominet member of the community yet are a prime example of a hypocrite.

    Is is really rich comming from you lass.
    How about YOU PLAY ALL THE FRONTLINES, actually win games.
    And get a 360 degree veiw of the game, instead of go onto threads and touting that others should play champs that you play, to see your persective.

    Seris... if you are a seris healbot without invesing in to shadow travel speed. Bam you die, you actually deserve it if you think anyone cannot chase you.

    If you are Furia, then you should know, Furia is a halfbaked garbage support when it comes to aggessive conflict since the removal of her mobility/damage talent, which was the only viable strat due to her lack of self defence. If you are playing furia, you are the healbot support I detest in the game, same as heal bot ying.

    If you are Ying, you have a +1000 hp clone you can shoot though and place another one down when it dies and you gain healing as you attack where Viktor has to retreat to heal.

    So instead of being a pain in my ass in every thread, can you at least see what I am trying to say instead giving your standard rederic of bs, if I want to state that Fernando has serious problems with this foe due to the recent changes, then I am free to state it without the lecutures.

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    Beta Player Emperor Valkure's Avatar
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    My problem is just that you can't understand people don't pick support to keep you alive, but to play and have fun on their own and BE EFFECTIVE.
    From yesterday ranked.
    I pick Jenos as insta-lock, because lately who has Jenos wins.
    Other player: why troll-picking? Jenos can't heal! Tanks will die.
    Me: you don't pick Jenos for heals, you pick Jenos for bonus dmg.
    First picker: why wasting Jenos' heals on a tank? You boost your DDs so they all die.
    And that's how it worked. We won in 8 minutes. The games before that, we lost in 8 min for they've picked Jenos and enemy BK was constantly buffed. My whole team didn't get a single kill in whole game.
    That's how thing works. Heals are useless if you die in 2 seconds. And when there's cauterize around.

    So, stop evaluating a support only for the healing output.
    I have nothing against you, but seriously, try to assume a different point of view. Heals are useless since round 2 and, in general, are not as effective as dmg. Especially since burst&caut meta.

    Damn, I'm starting to speak as him. T_T I hate that guy.

    PS: I don't have bonus speed on shadow travel Seris. And I usually don't die. I don't have card to give 1000HP to clones (and my Ying is level 105, just to say I know what I am speaking about). I've used that talent on Furia just at first released, to try it. And still...
    PPS: I have a training account. I play tanks there, you know. It is just that I don't like it.
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    I'm tired of repeating the same things, watch this: link

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  7. #27
    Member Baron buoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AyyDimitri View Post
    Man you guys obviously don't play much Fernando...
    You know how this was a poor choice of design for balence?
    Get this.

    I have heard folks like valkure complain so much about fernando that he was nerfed to the floor cause of this community of scrubs who can't learn positioning or to have a path of retreat... now this tank is rendered ineffective by most players standards as he has lost every trick up his sleave, speed, ranged caut, damage, now stands as a weakling.

    Compare the characters.

    Inhand attack damage...
    350dps, plus burn of 100 a sec....
    Viktor sprint 400 hp per sec... +DR
    Ok so without caut I am unable to kill a viktor just running around me, at any range.

    Fernando lost all base kit anti heal...
    Dealing with channeled healing round one is one thing, to do it with a the lowest dps and constant reductions to your antiheal made it impssible to fight inara, grock, ying, or anyone getting a seris heal.
    So Fern needs cauterise, or more damage to get through the healing numbers, and he lost both...
    All Fern cauterise potential is limited to close quarters due to removal base fireball caut and later the removal of brand.

    Viktor runs away easily, turns around and shoots you with very little skill level but with great effect.
    Its annoyingly simple.
    When I am busting my guts to defend my team, pressure the enemy and get a kill. Viktor is somewhat immune to what I can throw at him. Even with caut he can get out of it quite easily and I have to either give chase or be shot by him a few moments after...

    If you run a circle around a dude with a flamethower, you should not be able to run away like that.

    To summerise my understanding of the game, the lowest damage you can do per sec is 400.
    400 hp per sec is a momentary self heal of a frontline tier.
    To be on a damage is just a forced cauterise buy otherwise they will have an advantage in just walking up to you.
    To make that skill have little to no cooldown....
    Yeah these where the people who brought you shell spin makoa.

    Now fern fared quite well vs vik before any of this. Vik could just walk up to him from a vantage and shread nando. Ez. Now nando can't do anything against it with his nerfs and the buffs to vik, but cardio viktor outright tanks through a tanks dps.

    Don't get me started on how torvald and inara suffer a bit of the same fate.
    Does Grover have less dps in close range?

  8. #28
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    Yes Grover does suffer less damage in cqc, but he is quite well of against Viktor. But tbh grover cant fight much without ferocity.
    With ferocity Grover's ideal range, beats Viktors. Viktor mid range starts to supress Grover.
    Viktor is quite expliotible with Grover's cripple axe reseting vine, allowing Grover good vertical and horizontal mobiliy to escape from Viktor.
    Unless viktor pulls a sharp turn as soon a he can see the horizontal axe.
    Just Grover cannot sit still trading shots with viktor, too much head shot damage, too easy to apply caut, Grover has to peak from range to suppress him.

    Its just caut is not really the most viable option on grover unless they have very strong reactive healing, like pip or seris. Or major healing priorities like this cardio thing, inara, or to aid in kill securing.

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