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Thread: Cynthia, The Dimensional Traveler

  1. #71
    Beta Player Marquess TangAce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnOfAllTrades View Post
    Review time.

    LMB - There is no reason for this to stop in place besides to expand one part of the kit into taking up multiple abilities when it shouldn't. I'll go into that more when talking about the abilities specifically. As it is, this would be insanely broken at close ranges, reaching literal thousands in the DPS department as you could repeatedly send it out and retract it for an easy 2000 DPS plus some from abilities.

    RMB - This doesn't need to exist. It looks like you literally just took her attack and split its controls in half because you couldn't think of enough abilities. You could just make it to where her LMB is reactivated to retract the orb.

    Q - This could very easily just be her reload. Its a waste of an ability. What purpose is there for a 500 damage burst on an 8 second cooldown? Again, you just took her LMB and spread it out. Realistically it would rarely ever be used anyways because this character would be played at close range due to their easily abused LMB.

    F - This is fine. I would say it should be able to be activated when the orb isnt fully deployed to allow for slightly faster teleports but its not really necessary.

    E - This ability is practically worthless. The ability to rapidly teleport should be good but the pointless 3s period for it to be cancelled means that it would be useless for what people would primarily want to use it for. Mobility heavy ultimates are more frequently used as an escape but for some reason you decided for that to not be the case with this. As it stands, its just a tool for charging in.... as a damage champion..... With no DPS increase. No added protection... Nothing.

    Talents - Destroying Traverse has an awful name as you know but it seems like a potentially fun talent. Explosive Dance implies that there is a cooldown on the explosions from the ultimate but that is not included in the ultimate, leading me to assume you meant her Q's cooldown. Considering how useless her Q is, its not adding anything to the talent. Also, adding more speed to something that is only functionally useful for feeding the enemy team is... pointless. Growing Power is next to useless as it would require set up from a teammate or awful enemy positioning to add like 200 DPS to your LMB. Explosive Dance and Growing Power need to be replaced.

    Cards - Most of these are the typical cards you'd see on a Damage champion. I want to specifically focus on the ones from her Q (Destroy) because of the ability's useless nature. With a loadout dedicated to Destroy, you get some decent at best sustain and point control. The issue is, it would require heavy loadout investment to make the ability at all worth using considering what her optimal play style would be (again, that is massive close range DPS). You'd be better off making Destroy a special reload for her and replacing a couple of her Armor/Weapon cards with Repulse and Renew. That would give her less typical Armor/Weapon cards (which is a fairly rare sight) as well as allowing her to have an actually useful ability for her Q. Also... you did cards for the ultimate instead of cards for her RMB. Which further prooves that the RMB is really just supposed to be an extension of her LMB to fill up space. And ultimates don't get cards.

    Lore - Not much to say about the lore. I will say that she gives me SERIOUS Ultear (from Fairy Tail) vibes. Which is fine, because I like Ultear.

    Total - 3/10. Due to the RMB and Q being essentially just components of her LMB, she feels very unfinished. Additionally, the balance on the LMB needs to be looked at to allow her to be more useful at long range and less potent at close range. The ultimate also needs to be looked at heavily, with the charge up time in particular being its biggest downfall. Other potential fixes for her ultimate would be some form of sustain or protection to justify the charge up time and overall danger that comes with using it. There being cards gets you bonus points but the mistake of having cards for the ultimate instead of the RMB is pretty serious and draws attention to the flaws of the kit. Thematically speaking though, I like the idea of the character because, as I said, it makes me think of a character I enjoy (specifically of a type that I don't believe is anywhere near being overused). I look forward to seeing what the art for it turns out like. There is a LOT of fixing up that need to be done but the character isn't a lost cause like some that occasionally pop up on the forums.

    Oh, and a word of advice. When you respond to someone else's concept, try to be more constructive. Your response to Dimitri's concept was unnecessarily harsh and will be little help to him. Its okay to be harsh in your criticism if a concept deserves it, but remember to try to help them. We aren't here to tear down each other's ideas. We are here to build them up.

    EDIT: Also, I'm sorry for the wall of text. When necessary I try to go in depth with my reviews. I know not everyone likes to read a wall of text and I can provide a TL;DR if necessary but it will result in a loss of detail and meaning (obviously).
    well I guess I have been very hard on him, but I don't have much time right now to write long things^^' and if I answered it means I was interested in the concept and that I want it to get better, also that I don't have many ideas how to make it better, or rather more original
    hum well if you find ultear vibes it's okay I guess but I haven't taken any inspirations from her

    I wanted to make a champion relying mostly on her weapon, you might not like it but some actually like that
    about close range damage, I have thought a lot about it, one solution is to reduce damage if you do not hold LMB, but some pointed out that it's not that broken, it's a projectile, if your enemy moves between your LMB and RMB then the RMB won't do any damage (that mostly depends on the animation, you can make like a 0.2sec waiting time between LMB and RMB, but I already said I would precise this when I have some time, so not really a burst since you can avoid half the damage (not even mentioning that furing the time your weapon is coming back to you, you are vulnerable since you can't do damage if backburst doesn't hit, should be enough for a flank to kill her, of course she has other skills to prevent that)
    then about destroy, I'm not sure if you understand the use of having aoe? you know you can damage multiple persons, and at the same time it can increase your dps since you don't have to RMB is you use destroy, and since it's hard to hit with RMB because it depends on your position and enemy position (since aim have nothing to do with it to say it simply)
    if you look at lian or cassie, they have very similar abilities (valor and blast...that have exactly the same purpose)
    if she can traverse during the LMB then she would be way harder to flank
    I'm not sure you understand the ult, this ult allows for mobility and aoe damage, which is hella strong, I'm more afraid of this ult being too OP than being useless, the 3sec cast are here to prevent people using it anytime they need their traverse cooldown to get away, since you can use it no matter your ult charge rate, also it obliges you to play with your team, and to think when you use it, not like some ults which are simply press a button and see them die
    then you say the talent is useless, but no, it allows you to have aoe damage without having to teleport, the cooldown is here to prevent a 4000 aoe dps


    so maybe you don't really imagine very well how she would be played,
    but really I have worked a lot about her balance, compared to other current damage champs and so on, thought about combos and other stuff

    and her cards yes are a bit generic, but if you look carefully, most (if not all) champions have these generic cards (and each role has his set of generic cards), for a reason, then she has original cards that no other have


    I agree however on saying that RMB could be just LMB, but it would be less confusing to use separate buttons for separates abilities, the same some had proposed about lex weapons transformed into dual buttons, which in terms of gameplay is totally fine and gives a different experience, and also prevents blind spam

    but really, this is original, can be made even better, already pretty good compared to other concept, there are no big unbalances, maybe some values adjustment, but the design itself isn't as I have seen in other posts, press button for win, or either broken or useless by design, it's also possible to implement into a game, and so on, and still I'm always reading and replying and modifying stuff according to feedbacks...

    although, just you saying her ult would be useless makes me wonder how much you know about balance?


    then now for dimitri
    there is a min and max range, still I need to calculate it in game using units
    she is not a blast champion, she simply has a blast ability as many other hitscans have (even shalin can have some blast) and the aoe is pretty decent, she's not a zoning champion like dredge
    her escape, has a low cooldown because of how dangerous it is to use it, takes time if you want to go hiding from a flank, time during which you do not attack, and if you use it to make combos you find yourself in a very weird / bad position, the cd can be adjusted a bit tho

    you have no idea of what this ult could do, first you gain mobility, which means you are way harder to hit, then your dps increases and becomes aoe, as said above I don't think you realize what this kind of mobility do
    you also don't realize what 10sec is, ash's ult is 8sec, and just with this 8sec ult an entire team can be wiped, nando's ult is 4sec, just see how powerful it is, maeve, cassie, are simple ults doing no damage, see how powerful it is, how it can turn the tide of a match, that's what an ult is supposed to do, it gives a big advantage, and this one can give a huge advantage, that's why the cast time, you can hide during this time for exemple, but enemies need time to react to something like that


    then playing with "dimensions" or something, is way too complicated to balance or even to implement in such a game, then, the lore came way after the concept
    also you simply said what john said before you, so maybe he has some knowledge about balance and such, but you? I'm pretty sure you don't

    anyway, you both don't see possible combos and such, I'll take some stuff you said and adjust some values accordingly, but try to think about other than separate abilities when you are writing a review

    and both of you, I don't want a fight in this thread, so if you have anymore to say send pm
    Last edited by TangAce; 07-18-2019 at 04:33 PM.

  2. #72
    Beta Player Marquess JohnOfAllTrades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    if you find ultear vibes it's okay I guess but I haven't taken any inspirations from her
    Didn't mean to imply that you did. When it comes to creating an idea for a character it is pretty much inevitable that you will accidentally make something that has similarities to an existing concept. With how many games there have been over the years, the concept of a unique character is pretty much gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    I wanted to make a champion relying mostly on her weapon, you might not like it but some actually like that
    It's not a matter of liking it or not. Its a matter of it being poorly done in this concept. Look at my Darius concept you commented on. It is heavily focused on using his weapon. His Q and his F exist solely to reposition himself as he has a more positioning based weapon. On a similar note, his RMB exists to pull people out of the air that would normally be to high for him to attack and his ultimate (if used at all correctly) gives him a flat burst increase with his weapon. Everything he has exists specifically to allow him to keep using his LMB. Your character's RMB and Q on the other hand don't exist to supplement an interesting LMB but to simply let the LMB function as an actual LMB.

    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    about close range damage, I have thought a lot about it, one solution is to reduce damage if you do not hold LMB, but some pointed out that it's not that broken, it's a projectile, if your enemy moves between your LMB and RMB then the RMB won't do any damage (that mostly depends on the animation, you can make like a 0.2sec waiting time between LMB and RMB, but I already said I would precise this when I have some time, so not really a burst since you can avoid half the damage (not even mentioning that furing the time your weapon is coming back to you, you are vulnerable since you can't do damage if backburst doesn't hit, should be enough for a flank to kill her, of course she has other skills to prevent that)
    The issue is that characters that will be in her 'kill zone' of sorts are likely to be the unfortunate characters that would only get a second to respond before they die. And it being a projectile that can be missed makes very little difference in something that travels at this speed and is mainly being used close up. Sure you CAN miss part of the damage, but how likely is that REALLY? Not very likely. As for adding damage to it as it charges up, that is a possible solution but does make more work for you in balancing. You absolutely much make sure that it is at least somewhat useful at close range still to make sure the character isn't completely shut down by Flanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    then about destroy, I'm not sure if you understand the use of having aoe? you know you can damage multiple persons, and at the same time it can increase your dps since you don't have to RMB is you use destroy, and since it's hard to hit with RMB because it depends on your position and enemy position (since aim have nothing to do with it to say it simply)
    if you look at lian or cassie, they have very similar abilities (valor and blast...that have exactly the same purpose)
    I didn't say AoE is bad. I said THIS AoE is bad. The functionality of her weapon makes it useless. The functionality of her abilities needing her orb to be fully deployed makes this useless. Cassie and Lian's burst abilities exist to allow for combos that result in big bursts by weaving them in with your weapon attacks. This character cannot do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    if she can traverse during the LMB then she would be way harder to flank
    Barely. It'd give her a quicker dodge at the expense of distance traveled. It balances itself out.

    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    I'm not sure you understand the ult, this ult allows for mobility and aoe damage, which is hella strong, I'm more afraid of this ult being too OP than being useless, the 3sec cast are here to prevent people using it anytime they need their traverse cooldown to get away, since you can use it no matter your ult charge rate, also it obliges you to play with your team, and to think when you use it, not like some ults which are simply press a button and see them die
    In all of what you said, I think this is what I have the biggest problem with. The issue is that you will quite literally never get to use your ult if you are near any enemies. It will have to be used exclusively like Imani ult where you hide in a corner somewhere and hope nobody stumbles across you for several seconds. And Imani ult is poorly designed. Then you have to take in to account that, sure, it has mobility BUT lacks everything else. It even lacks the ability to be used as an escape which nullifies the whole point of having a mobility based ultimate. You don't need to make it to where you press a button and watch people die. You need to make it to where you press a button and actually get to USE the thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    then you say the talent is useless, but no, it allows you to have aoe damage without having to teleport, the cooldown is here to prevent a 4000 aoe dps
    My mistake on the way the talent works. You really didn't word it in a way that made it clear what explosion you were talking about. Still, once again you are adding an unnecessary drawback to anything and everything relating to this ult. Adding the explosion delay is essentially just nerfing the ult that you are rarely getting to use. At least without the delay you can cheese somebody and hit that peak 2000 DPS (which I should once again remind you is absurd and achievable without using the ultimate) but with this you are essentially neutering any hope of doing ANYTHING with the ult. I could still be misunderstanding what you mean by it though since you seem to be having a hard time explaining it (like with the lack of even once saying what explosion you mean) but who knows?

    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    so maybe you don't really imagine very well how she would be played,
    but really I have worked a lot about her balance, compared to other current damage champs and so on, thought about combos and other stuff
    I've been doing this since Viktor came out dude. I do a pretty good job of understanding the different ways champions can be used. The optimal use of your character is, just like I said, literally just spamming you LMB and RMB at close range to obliterate people. You may have worked on her balance and looked at damage champions, but looking at something and UNDERSTANDING why something is like it is are completely different things.

    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    and her cards yes are a bit generic, but if you look carefully, most (if not all) champions have these generic cards (and each role has his set of generic cards), for a reason, then she has original cards that no other have
    Yes I know most characters have generic cards. Thats why I said that they are the typical cards you'd see. Thats also why I didn't say anything was wrong with that. Also, I hate to break it to you, but she really doesn't have any unique cards which you seem to think she does. Which, once again, is fine. Not every character needs super unique cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    I agree however on saying that RMB could be just LMB, but it would be less confusing to use separate buttons for separates abilities, the same some had proposed about lex weapons transformed into dual buttons, which in terms of gameplay is totally fine and gives a different experience, and also prevents blind spam
    There are several things wrong with this. First, taking measures to make a weapon less confusing is only at all necessary on weapons that would be at all confusing to use and this is not one of those. Second, keeping all the components of a weapon in the LMB doesn't hurt a character since it just adds much needed variety to the feeling of the game. Third, you clearly couldn't even think of cards to fit with your mistake of splitting the LMB into an LMB and RMB to justify your choice. Fourth, if Lex had his gunfire split between LMB and RMB and each reloaded separately it would actually add a weapon that feels unique in the case of Paladins (something akin to the old Halo dual wielding feel) which your concept doesn't pull off.

    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    but really, this is original, can be made even better, already pretty good compared to other concept, there are no big unbalances, maybe some values adjustment, but the design itself isn't as I have seen in other posts, press button for win, or either broken or useless by design, it's also possible to implement into a game, and so on, and still I'm always reading and replying and modifying stuff according to feedbacks...
    Actually, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but, there are PLENTY of character concepts that are better than this. Better kit design, more unique themes, better balancing, etc.. And this is my biggest issue with you. You don't listen to feedback. You reply to the feedback and pat yourself on the back before ignoring it. I READ the responses on here and to most of them you said some form of "But I like my way better". Then there's the fact that I JUST TODAY gave about 10 paragraphs worth of feedback to show you how it is unbalanced and what parts need to be fixed. What was your response? The world's longest "Nuh uh!" followed by the hypocritical "the design itself isn't as I have seen in other posts, press button for win, or either broken or useless by design" statement then even further followed by the delusional "modifying stuff according to feedbacks..." line. We just told you why the character is too bursty and why half the kit is useless. You cannot ignore that and then say "Well, at least I don't do those thing!".

    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    although, just you saying her ult would be useless makes me wonder how much you know about balance?
    Case in point. Your method is to ignore all the feedback and pat yourself on the back for the tons and tons of effort you put in to ignoring the feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    you have no idea of what this ult could do, first you gain mobility, which means you are way harder to hit, then your dps increases and becomes aoe, as said above I don't think you realize what this kind of mobility do
    you also don't realize what 10sec is, ash's ult is 8sec, and just with this 8sec ult an entire team can be wiped, nando's ult is 4sec, just see how powerful it is, maeve, cassie, are simple ults doing no damage, see how powerful it is, how it can turn the tide of a match, that's what an ult is supposed to do, it gives a big advantage, and this one can give a huge advantage, that's why the cast time, you can hide during this time for exemple, but enemies need time to react to something like that
    I know this is where you are talking to Dimitri but I can't leave this out. The argument that "Well if you actually get to activate it, its broken" is awful. First of all, you are not likely going to get to use it. Second, if you stay far enough away to actually use it, you will waste a decent chunk of the duration just getting to the fight. Third, if you do get to activate it and start heading for the fight, here is a list of characters that could stop you before you get to do anything since your ult has no way of buffing or protecting you from anything:
    Androxus - Literally just kills you with his high damage or redirects your damage with Reversal
    Ash - Knocks you super far back since your ult gives no CC immunity, making you waste even more of your duration to just get to the fight. Additionally, can ult to stun you making you die before you can do anything.
    Atlas - Rewinds you or banishes you, wasting the majority of your ult's charge.
    Bomb King - Stuns you or knocks you back, causing you to either die or waste a considerable amount of ult charge.
    Cassie - Probably just flat out kills you before you get to her and can also knock you away.
    Dredge - Congratulations, you just charged headfirst into a Dredge, go directly to jail, do not pass GO etc, etc...
    Drogoz - Kills you or knocks you away with fire spit.
    Evie - Ults you, stopping your ult and killing you.
    Fernando - Ults, keeping alive his team for plenty of time to kill you.
    Furia - Stuns you and you die to her team
    Grohk - Counter ults and you die
    Grover - Counter ults and you die before you can kill anyone OR just hits you with his cripple, stopping you long enough for you to die.
    Imani - Likely just kills you
    Inara - Counter ults and you die OR uses Treacherous Ground and you die
    Jenos - Ults at your orb to kill you OR just void grips you.
    Khan - Grabs you and stops you for plenty of time for his team to kill you.
    Kinessa - Kills you before you anywhere near the fight.
    Koga - Likely kills you and can also counter ult to guarantee your death if you try to attack him
    Lex - Likely just dashes around you and kills you with you not having much of a chance to even hurt him
    Lian - Counter ults and you die. Could also just kill you with her normal burst.
    Maeve - Blinds you for a long duration, making you likely to waste your ult and die. Also potentially kills you
    Makoa - Hooks you and you die
    Mal'Damba - Stuns you or ults you and you die
    Moji - Counter ults and you die OR just kills you with her LMB + RMB damage
    Pip - Counter ults you and you die
    Ruckus - Counter ults and you die
    Seris - Stuns with Agony or counter ults and you die
    Sha Lin - Kills you before you get close or counter ults and kills you while you can't see him
    Skye - Counter ults and you die. Or just kills you with her DPS
    Strix - One shots you the moment you dare try to teleport to your orb
    Talus - Kills you with his high DPS or counter ults and you die
    Terminus - Absorbs your damage and his team kills you OR he runs Crush and stuns you. You then die.
    Torvald - Silences you or counter ults and you die
    Tyra - Kills you with DPS before you get in range or runs Burn, Monster! and stops your ult
    Viktor - Kills you with DPS or literally just runs around with Cardio
    Vivian - Kills you with DPS
    Willo - Just flat out runs from you with her ult
    Ying - Counter ults and her team lives while you die. Also just runs with Dimensional Link
    Zhin - Counter ults and you die

    Congratulations! You can potentially kill a team that has only Bariks and Bucks!

    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    then playing with "dimensions" or something, is way too complicated to balance or even to implement in such a game, then, the lore came way after the concept
    No.. No it is not too hard. You are just lazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    also you simply said what john said before you, so maybe he has some knowledge about balance and such, but you? I'm pretty sure you don't
    Once again you are needlessly harsh. Do you hate Dimitri or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    anyway, you both don't see possible combos and such, I'll take some stuff you said and adjust some values accordingly, but try to think about other than separate abilities when you are writing a review
    You can't just adjust values. You need to rework half of the kit. And the character legitimately has no combo that matches the 2000 DPS she does close up. Wowie you can do a 1000 damage burst by using the Q after the LMB? Oh, but that means you cut your DPS in half. And for this you are giving up a legitimately useful Q? And dont even get me started again on the RMB.

    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    and both of you, I don't want a fight in this thread, so if you have anymore to say send pm
    There is no fight. There is just a review. And reviews should be public for anyone interested in giving their own review or for anyone interested in the development of a concept.
    If you ever need a review for a champion concept just message me.

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  3. #73
    Beta Player Marquess TangAce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnOfAllTrades View Post
    Didn't mean to imply that you did. When it comes to creating an idea for a character it is pretty much inevitable that you will accidentally make something that has similarities to an existing concept. With how many games there have been over the years, the concept of a unique character is pretty much gone.



    It's not a matter of liking it or not. Its a matter of it being poorly done in this concept. Look at my Darius concept you commented on. It is heavily focused on using his weapon. His Q and his F exist solely to reposition himself as he has a more positioning based weapon. On a similar note, his RMB exists to pull people out of the air that would normally be to high for him to attack and his ultimate (if used at all correctly) gives him a flat burst increase with his weapon. Everything he has exists specifically to allow him to keep using his LMB. Your character's RMB and Q on the other hand don't exist to supplement an interesting LMB but to simply let the LMB function as an actual LMB.



    The issue is that characters that will be in her 'kill zone' of sorts are likely to be the unfortunate characters that would only get a second to respond before they die. And it being a projectile that can be missed makes very little difference in something that travels at this speed and is mainly being used close up. Sure you CAN miss part of the damage, but how likely is that REALLY? Not very likely. As for adding damage to it as it charges up, that is a possible solution but does make more work for you in balancing. You absolutely much make sure that it is at least somewhat useful at close range still to make sure the character isn't completely shut down by Flanks.



    I didn't say AoE is bad. I said THIS AoE is bad. The functionality of her weapon makes it useless. The functionality of her abilities needing her orb to be fully deployed makes this useless. Cassie and Lian's burst abilities exist to allow for combos that result in big bursts by weaving them in with your weapon attacks. This character cannot do that.



    Barely. It'd give her a quicker dodge at the expense of distance traveled. It balances itself out.



    In all of what you said, I think this is what I have the biggest problem with. The issue is that you will quite literally never get to use your ult if you are near any enemies. It will have to be used exclusively like Imani ult where you hide in a corner somewhere and hope nobody stumbles across you for several seconds. And Imani ult is poorly designed. Then you have to take in to account that, sure, it has mobility BUT lacks everything else. It even lacks the ability to be used as an escape which nullifies the whole point of having a mobility based ultimate. You don't need to make it to where you press a button and watch people die. You need to make it to where you press a button and actually get to USE the thing.



    My mistake on the way the talent works. You really didn't word it in a way that made it clear what explosion you were talking about. Still, once again you are adding an unnecessary drawback to anything and everything relating to this ult. Adding the explosion delay is essentially just nerfing the ult that you are rarely getting to use. At least without the delay you can cheese somebody and hit that peak 2000 DPS (which I should once again remind you is absurd and achievable without using the ultimate) but with this you are essentially neutering any hope of doing ANYTHING with the ult. I could still be misunderstanding what you mean by it though since you seem to be having a hard time explaining it (like with the lack of even once saying what explosion you mean) but who knows?



    I've been doing this since Viktor came out dude. I do a pretty good job of understanding the different ways champions can be used. The optimal use of your character is, just like I said, literally just spamming you LMB and RMB at close range to obliterate people. You may have worked on her balance and looked at damage champions, but looking at something and UNDERSTANDING why something is like it is are completely different things.



    Yes I know most characters have generic cards. Thats why I said that they are the typical cards you'd see. Thats also why I didn't say anything was wrong with that. Also, I hate to break it to you, but she really doesn't have any unique cards which you seem to think she does. Which, once again, is fine. Not every character needs super unique cards.



    There are several things wrong with this. First, taking measures to make a weapon less confusing is only at all necessary on weapons that would be at all confusing to use and this is not one of those. Second, keeping all the components of a weapon in the LMB doesn't hurt a character since it just adds much needed variety to the feeling of the game. Third, you clearly couldn't even think of cards to fit with your mistake of splitting the LMB into an LMB and RMB to justify your choice. Fourth, if Lex had his gunfire split between LMB and RMB and each reloaded separately it would actually add a weapon that feels unique in the case of Paladins (something akin to the old Halo dual wielding feel) which your concept doesn't pull off.



    Actually, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but, there are PLENTY of character concepts that are better than this. Better kit design, more unique themes, better balancing, etc.. And this is my biggest issue with you. You don't listen to feedback. You reply to the feedback and pat yourself on the back before ignoring it. I READ the responses on here and to most of them you said some form of "But I like my way better". Then there's the fact that I JUST TODAY gave about 10 paragraphs worth of feedback to show you how it is unbalanced and what parts need to be fixed. What was your response? The world's longest "Nuh uh!" followed by the hypocritical "the design itself isn't as I have seen in other posts, press button for win, or either broken or useless by design" statement then even further followed by the delusional "modifying stuff according to feedbacks..." line. We just told you why the character is too bursty and why half the kit is useless. You cannot ignore that and then say "Well, at least I don't do those thing!".



    Case in point. Your method is to ignore all the feedback and pat yourself on the back for the tons and tons of effort you put in to ignoring the feedback.



    I know this is where you are talking to Dimitri but I can't leave this out. The argument that "Well if you actually get to activate it, its broken" is awful. First of all, you are not likely going to get to use it. Second, if you stay far enough away to actually use it, you will waste a decent chunk of the duration just getting to the fight. Third, if you do get to activate it and start heading for the fight, here is a list of characters that could stop you before you get to do anything since your ult has no way of buffing or protecting you from anything:
    Androxus - Literally just kills you with his high damage or redirects your damage with Reversal
    Ash - Knocks you super far back since your ult gives no CC immunity, making you waste even more of your duration to just get to the fight. Additionally, can ult to stun you making you die before you can do anything.
    Atlas - Rewinds you or banishes you, wasting the majority of your ult's charge.
    Bomb King - Stuns you or knocks you back, causing you to either die or waste a considerable amount of ult charge.
    Cassie - Probably just flat out kills you before you get to her and can also knock you away.
    Dredge - Congratulations, you just charged headfirst into a Dredge, go directly to jail, do not pass GO etc, etc...
    Drogoz - Kills you or knocks you away with fire spit.
    Evie - Ults you, stopping your ult and killing you.
    Fernando - Ults, keeping alive his team for plenty of time to kill you.
    Furia - Stuns you and you die to her team
    Grohk - Counter ults and you die
    Grover - Counter ults and you die before you can kill anyone OR just hits you with his cripple, stopping you long enough for you to die.
    Imani - Likely just kills you
    Inara - Counter ults and you die OR uses Treacherous Ground and you die
    Jenos - Ults at your orb to kill you OR just void grips you.
    Khan - Grabs you and stops you for plenty of time for his team to kill you.
    Kinessa - Kills you before you anywhere near the fight.
    Koga - Likely kills you and can also counter ult to guarantee your death if you try to attack him
    Lex - Likely just dashes around you and kills you with you not having much of a chance to even hurt him
    Lian - Counter ults and you die. Could also just kill you with her normal burst.
    Maeve - Blinds you for a long duration, making you likely to waste your ult and die. Also potentially kills you
    Makoa - Hooks you and you die
    Mal'Damba - Stuns you or ults you and you die
    Moji - Counter ults and you die OR just kills you with her LMB + RMB damage
    Pip - Counter ults you and you die
    Ruckus - Counter ults and you die
    Seris - Stuns with Agony or counter ults and you die
    Sha Lin - Kills you before you get close or counter ults and kills you while you can't see him
    Skye - Counter ults and you die. Or just kills you with her DPS
    Strix - One shots you the moment you dare try to teleport to your orb
    Talus - Kills you with his high DPS or counter ults and you die
    Terminus - Absorbs your damage and his team kills you OR he runs Crush and stuns you. You then die.
    Torvald - Silences you or counter ults and you die
    Tyra - Kills you with DPS before you get in range or runs Burn, Monster! and stops your ult
    Viktor - Kills you with DPS or literally just runs around with Cardio
    Vivian - Kills you with DPS
    Willo - Just flat out runs from you with her ult
    Ying - Counter ults and her team lives while you die. Also just runs with Dimensional Link
    Zhin - Counter ults and you die

    Congratulations! You can potentially kill a team that has only Bariks and Bucks!



    No.. No it is not too hard. You are just lazy.



    Once again you are needlessly harsh. Do you hate Dimitri or something?



    You can't just adjust values. You need to rework half of the kit. And the character legitimately has no combo that matches the 2000 DPS she does close up. Wowie you can do a 1000 damage burst by using the Q after the LMB? Oh, but that means you cut your DPS in half. And for this you are giving up a legitimately useful Q? And dont even get me started again on the RMB.



    There is no fight. There is just a review. And reviews should be public for anyone interested in giving their own review or for anyone interested in the development of a concept.
    as I said you don't think about combos, exemple, LMB, Destroy, LMB, Traverse, LMB, but sure destroy doesn't allow for any burst combo?

    then I said close range might be a problem but a problem am already looking into since I started the concept

    so I totally understand how balance works, but you stay fixed on something I have said isn't meant to stay like that, so you are saying everything else is useless since one thing that won't stay is better? wow I'm impressed about how your thinking is limited

    I ignore feedbacks? since this concept started I have read and replyed to every single feedback, taken them into account, explained why some were bad, considered others when changing things, but sure I don't listen to feedbacks


    if your ult can't be countered then it's a broken ult (only ults giving imunity like nando's or stuff like cassie's can't be countered and are still healthy for the game, having a press button get penta ult is a terrible idea
    point is, an ult can be countered and still be good, this ult particularly can give you a big advantage in a fight, so tell me why this ult would be soooo bad? show me an ult that can't be countered and isn't broken? and if you find one it would mean that for you all other ults are useless
    very impressive thinking once again


    then yes implementing things like multiple dimensions or things cluttering the map is hard, hard to implement, hard to balance, creates tons of problems, it can be done like imani's dragon, but if you put too many stuff like that or like atlas' ult, the game would became unplayable


    one may create something like that, but truth is there is little chance for it to be made one day


    I don't hate him, I simply don't like him coming to repeat what his friend just said

    values can be adjusted no matter what you say


    and you shouldn't do reviews if you can't even properly understand this game's balance nor make a near perfect concept, not even mentioning some dumb things you can't understand ni what I say

    I wouldn't do reviews for now, not until this concept is finished

    anyway, I'm done talking to you, you don't even understand what I said about close range and are staying fixed on this when it doesn't matter since I never intended to let it as it is now (and you'd know this if you had read I think one of my first reply to someone's feedback

    finally, maybe you call this a review, but as I see it right now, it simply is a feedback, you don't have solid points, you don't compare to what is currently is in the actual game, you don't show any other problem than close range, a problem that I knew since the beginning of the concept

    [edited by mod]
    Last edited by Borvik; 07-19-2019 at 02:43 PM.

  4. #74
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    I didn't read dimitri as he just copied what you said....
    Why do we even bother trying to help this kid...

    1 - I didn't read Johns feedback.
    2 - I barely know who John is, he is not trying to sabotage the champ, he is just giving his opinion.
    3 - At a mere glance I gave a brief description of why this has its flaws and would not be very fun to play in its current state, and what could be done to improve it in areas.
    4 - If the feedback is in any way similar to other feed back then multiple people share similar issues, which does not surprise me considering this concept in its current state is a bit jarring.
    5 - edited by mod

    Compared to other Damage.
    This champ looks to have little zoning pressure with no utility outside of mobility and a burst combo that requires you to be in CQC with another player.
    The lingering damage orb is the only utility of area denial here, it funtions as a moving land mine and provides damage on contact when players touch it, can home in on targets while the LMB is held, stays in place when not held but limits your CQC ractive attack options unless recalled.

    In a utility sense the lingering orb can deny a really tight corridor or choke with a lingering potential explosion is good vs squishies but sacrifising your attack power to perform this utility.... makes the champ sound like an open frag who needs to be protected from diving champs as there is nothing in the kit that prevents someone from rushing you other then a teleport with a bit of wind up that will get you killed.
    Having a very low cd on your teleport will not solve this issue, just makes it extremely hard to get to this champ, considering that land based champs take ages to reach anything.
    If you were enguaged whilst using this weapon for area denial, the recall time on it had better work as every sec counts in a conflict and the character cannot get out of the fray of combat quickly, making it fairly easy to read when enguaged due to the dynamic of the mobility.

    My gripes about the weapon is that it is contat damage, there is no description of it being land based, so it pretty much has free rain to go anywhere but requires you to be locked in tunnel vision with another player in order to confirm damage at longer distances. Putting you on the back foot vs hit scan at range.

    Personally I would do away with the contact damage, I would opt for an orb that emmits radial zone of damage over time, that would make a different weapon altoghether (area chainsaw orb) and allow the lingering damage orb to have a more defined zoning radius to deny corridors and chokes, making up for the fact you cannot attack while it is out in its current state.
    I also think that the orb should have a total duration that it can be away from the player before it teleports back, as an infinite duration doorway land mine, is a bit rich for zoning, even if it does megre damage and is countered by enguaging in combat with the player, something like 4s should be long enough.

    Mobility (as I will say again) is on too low of a CD to be fair, make some card combo options to reduce CD something, chronos 3 would reduce this to like 3.5s, making it too good and too easy to stay out of range OF EVERYTHING.

    And again the ult is jarring.
    Drogoz has a 2s lockout time and then a 4s window for a kill.
    This has a 3s lockout time, but allows you to spam attack and teleport with no CD for up to 10s. Since you do not have any lockout time between teleports, no prefire or post fire for the orb, it leeds me to beleive that you can fire and teleport more then once a second. And hug people, problem is this champ has no other abilities that allow it to stay in that range and would be killed a sec vs a well positioned team who can read the orb.

    Besides the visual thought of a player teleporting multiple times and doing AoE damage each time for 10s is just disgusting spam. In a 1v1 seems like it would outright kill most champs with easy to follow mobility, you could even fly with tele, lmb, tele, lmb over and over for 10s since you have not listed any delay.

    You already have the lowest cd for high ground accessability via teleport. Why would you need an ult which is just mobility on top of mobility with a 3s lockout time and ambient damage will cancel its wind up.

    [edited by mod]
    Last edited by Borvik; 07-19-2019 at 02:43 PM.

  5. #75
    Beta Player Marquess JohnOfAllTrades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangAce View Post
    as I said you don't think about combos, exemple, LMB, Destroy, LMB, Traverse, LMB, but sure destroy doesn't allow for any burst combo?

    then I said close range might be a problem but a problem am already looking into since I started the concept

    so I totally understand how balance works, but you stay fixed on something I have said isn't meant to stay like that, so you are saying everything else is useless since one thing that won't stay is better? wow I'm impressed about how your thinking is limited

    I ignore feedbacks? since this concept started I have read and replyed to every single feedback, taken them into account, explained why some were bad, considered others when changing things, but sure I don't listen to feedbacks


    if your ult can't be countered then it's a broken ult (only ults giving imunity like nando's or stuff like cassie's can't be countered and are still healthy for the game, having a press button get penta ult is a terrible idea
    point is, an ult can be countered and still be good, this ult particularly can give you a big advantage in a fight, so tell me why this ult would be soooo bad? show me an ult that can't be countered and isn't broken? and if you find one it would mean that for you all other ults are useless
    very impressive thinking once again


    then yes implementing things like multiple dimensions or things cluttering the map is hard, hard to implement, hard to balance, creates tons of problems, it can be done like imani's dragon, but if you put too many stuff like that or like atlas' ult, the game would became unplayable


    one may create something like that, but truth is there is little chance for it to be made one day


    I don't hate him, I simply don't like him coming to repeat what his friend just said

    values can be adjusted no matter what you say


    and you shouldn't do reviews if you can't even properly understand this game's balance nor make a near perfect concept, not even mentioning some dumb things you can't understand ni what I say

    I wouldn't do reviews for now, not until this concept is finished

    anyway, I'm done talking to you, you don't even understand what I said about close range and are staying fixed on this when it doesn't matter since I never intended to let it as it is now (and you'd know this if you had read I think one of my first reply to someone's feedback

    finally, maybe you call this a review, but as I see it right now, it simply is a feedback, you don't have solid points, you don't compare to what is currently is in the actual game, you don't show any other problem than close range, a problem that I knew since the beginning of the concept

    what I see is just that you didn't like what I wrote about your friend's concept and so you are trying to sabotage me in a very obvious way
    weirdly among all people who gave feedbacks, you are the only one (well I won't cuont dimitri since he just copyed what you said) to say it's bad, the only to say her ult is useless (seriously how can it be useless...) and so on, the only one, and it was read by many people, I have received lots of feedbacks (not just in this thread, but in pm and on reddit as well)
    yes it's unfinished and some things will change, yes there are improvements to be done and I'm the first to say it
    but I'm pretty sure you ain't objective in yuor "review"
    I'm pretty much done with you and reading Dimitri's comment I see that he addressed most of what I would have responded with anyways. I only have a couple things to say.

    First, a person can hear something but not listen m8. You may have read the feedback, but the fact that you essentially threw the feedback out the window without even half a thought means you ignored it.

    Second, yes ults need counters. The fact that literally everything that exists in the game counters your ult is the problem.

    You say most people that make concepts here don't understand balance and then go "Well you are the only one saying its bad" because you don't realize that you are one of those people that doesn't understand balance. [edited by mod]
    Last edited by Borvik; 07-19-2019 at 02:41 PM.
    If you ever need a review for a champion concept just message me.

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  6. #76
    Super Moderator Grand Prince Borvik's Avatar
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    I understand that you guys are all trying to have a constructive debate here, but please, everyone, calm down. You can provide criticism without insults.

    Also, side note, when there's a huge wall of text, please try to separate them into individual quotes if you want others to be able to follow along. Please don't quote wall of texts in full.
    *Disclaimer: I am a volunteer moderator. I work on best judgement and do not speak on behalf of Hi-Rez Studios.*

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  7. #77
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    Since she has a talent which empowers her ult, it would be nice to replace one of her armor/weapon cards with a card that grant 1-2% ult charge per level for eliminations. Its difficult to imagine how she would be played with the ultimate so its just a thought. And champs dont have 4 cards for their ults but its fine i think becuz of the way her RMB works.

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