Simple Balance Maeve

[Shadowpuppy]

I have decided to start doing threads on balance based around two ideas.

Simplicity
Testing

I see allot of threads with these crazy balance ideas of altering the entire meta to balance a class or fix the whole game in wide sweeping changes to do so. These threads are not realistic as Hi Rez is not going to alter the entire meta based on some persons rant on these forums. I will be posting ideas on balance one champ at a time with the goal of providing simple fixes that maintain the champions current play style and does not require alterations of the entire kit to implement. The goal is to provide solutions that are simplistic as well as easy to implement so that the words on this page have a shot being looked at.

I will call my post Simple Balance " Champion Name "

What is the issue with Maeve currently? No Burst, cannot compete with burst flanks.
I find that after playing a bunch of matches in the last week that Maeve has a hard time dealing with anything that has burst. I could hit an Andro first he could turn around, and start shooting, i hit my second shot and he could kill me before i hit my third. This is not a complaint but a fact.

This is why Damage reduction is the only way that Maeve can exist currently.
The buff to 9 lives helped but thats a 20 second skill so its not exactly a strong counter to burst damage.

So based on the principles about simplicity how can we improve without breaking?

I thought about increasing her attack speed but i think that would break her quite quickly.
The real issue is that maeve is a distance flank. She does not want to fight Andro or Lex up close but she has no real options for creating distance as her Pounce is short distance and its super easy to shoot a maeve in prowl.


Remove the damage on pounce from the base kit.

Double the range of Pounce
Add a range extending card for Pounce


Remove Street Justice is not fun for anyone, remove it
Replace with Pounce has two charges

Replace Pounce reset legendary with
9 lives no longer resets Pounce and cool down is reduced by 10 seconds

Now we have a three legendary cards
Pounce
9 Lives
Prowl

I believe that this would give her the ability to create distance when needed as well as offer some fun flanking options for the smart player. I do not think any of these would break her or the game and would only increase the fun of playing her.


These changes will give Maeve more movement without adding the speed that people have issues dealing with. Pounce is pretty much garbage for damage, its to easy to hit to allow very much damage.

Some of the pounce cards would need to be changed to activation rather than hit, did not sound like an issue to me but feel free to correct me. I am sure i have not thought of everything.

[IAMFROSTIEE]

What is the issue with Maeve currently? No Burst, cannot compete with burst flanks.
I find that after playing a bunch of matches in the last week that Maeve has a hard time dealing with anything that has burst. I could hit an Andro first he could turn around, and start shooting, i hit my second shot and he could kill me before i hit my third. This is not a complaint but a fact.
.

The idea of giving pounce additional range and 2 charges is nice.I personally like mobile playstyles with all the champs making the game more skill required.
but i dont agree with what you are saying about flanks design
Flankers should only be able to do 3 things
1>Harass enemy team to move outta position and making way for your team to have a chance in fight.
2>Be more mobile.
3>SHOULD ONLY BE ABLE TO FINISH OFF CHAMPIONS WITH DECREASED HP-why i am stressing this is currently flanks are dominating this game.Flanks becomes almost perfect only in high elo's where players know what they are doing and co-ordinated plays happens.Not everyone is in high elo so balancing a champ around everyone perspective is important!
so the reason she cant finish off full hp andro is literally not the reason you can buff or change maeve or any other flank characters.
The reason is andro simply has too much burst and a spammy gun which is overpowered than maeve weapon which needs to be fixed.

[SakkeEU]

Remove the damage on pounce from the base kit.

Double the range of Pounce
Add a range extending card for Pounce


Remove Street Justice is not fun for anyone, remove it
Replace with Pounce has two charges

Replace Pounce reset legendary with
9 lives no longer resets Pounce and cool down is reduced by 10 seconds

Now we have a three legendary cards
Pounce
9 Lives
Prowl

I believe that this would give her the ability to create distance when needed as well as offer some fun flanking options for the smart player. I do not think any of these would break her or the game and would only increase the fun of playing her.


These changes will give Maeve more movement without adding the speed that people have issues dealing with. Pounce is pretty much garbage for damage, its to easy to hit to allow very much damage.

Some of the pounce cards would need to be changed to activation rather than hit, did not sound like an issue to me but feel free to correct me. I am sure i have not thought of everything.

Nice changes on the base kit Pounce, they solve a lot of problem at the cost of only 400 damage loss. Using Pounce for anything other than just the movement without Street Justice is suicidial anyway.

I don't see myself using the 9lives talent in any scenario, it basically makes 9lives a 10 seconds CD heal that still need a 5 points card to be decent. It might get unbalanced if its CD could be reduced to 5 through cards, the easy fix anyway is just the conversion of flat -time CDR cards into -%time CDR.

I would happly trade the 9lives (or maybe the prowl )talent for a talent that changes her ultimate a bit.

I liked to be on top of the enemies heads with Maeve when hypermobility was still a thing, these changes would pretty much make it possible again.

[Shadowpuppy]

The idea of giving pounce additional range and 2 charges is nice.I personally like mobile playstyles with all the champs making the game more skill required.
but i dont agree with what you are saying about flanks design
Flankers should only be able to do 3 things
1>Harass enemy team to move outta position and making way for your team to have a chance in fight.
2>Be more mobile.
3>SHOULD ONLY BE ABLE TO FINISH OFF CHAMPIONS WITH DECREASED HP-why i am stressing this is currently flanks are dominating this game.Flanks becomes almost perfect only in high elo's where players know what they are doing and co-ordinated plays happens.Not everyone is in high elo so balancing a champ around everyone perspective is important!
so the reason she cant finish off full hp andro is literally not the reason you can buff or change maeve or any other flank characters.
The reason is andro simply has too much burst and a spammy gun which is overpowered than maeve weapon which needs to be fixed.

Post like this is what i want to avoid. We can
not expect positive change with lost based around complaining. This post is not about burst meta and it is not about Andro. It a some simple fixes that will make maeve more fun to play without breaking her for other people to deal with. I will have a post about Andro and we can talk. about him then.

[Shadowpuppy]

Nice changes on the base kit Pounce, they solve a lot of problem at the cost of only 400 damage loss. Using Pounce for anything other than just the movement without Street Justice is suicidial anyway.

I don't see myself using the 9lives talent in any scenario, it basically makes 9lives a 10 seconds CD heal that still need a 5 points card to be decent. It might get unbalanced if its CD could be reduced to 5 through cards, the easy fix anyway is just the conversion of flat -time CDR cards into -%time CDR.

I would happly trade the 9lives (or maybe the prowl )talent for a talent that changes her ultimate a bit.

I liked to be on top of the enemies heads with Maeve when hypermobility was still a thing, these changes would pretty much make it possible again.

You may be forgeting that 9 lives every 10 seconds would also mean allot of. Prowl action as well.

[IAMFROSTIEE]

Post like this is what i want to avoid. We can
not expect positive change with lost based around complaining. This post is not about burst meta and it is not about Andro. It a some simple fixes that will make maeve more fun to play without breaking her for other people to deal with. I will have a post about Andro and we can talk. about him then.

dude i just agreed with the idea!

[Shadowpuppy]

dude i just agreed with the idea!

i understand however i would like to keep the focus of these post on how the fixes increase fun or how they may be flawed.
Flankers should only be able to .... is s gateway to discussions about the role of flank which i would like to avoid as they go endlessly in circles

No offence intended

[AR3A]

Removing the damage from pounce is a rather interesting idea since that would make her one of the few champions whose skills don't do damage. I'm only hesitant on it because it's the only real way Maeve can secure damage (most of the time) for players who miss their daggers (cause in all honesty, a lot of us suck at aiming with her weapons... especially me XD). However, if we take away her damage with pounce, the skill loses a lot of it's functionality. The main example is when she pounces at players. When Maeve pounces at a player, she becomes much more vulnerable to them because if they shoot at you when you pounce at them, she will get hit. Sure you can add damage reduction cards to it, but the main point will be, "Why pounce at an enemy at all?" After all, when you pounce at an opponent, you end up right where you pounced at them will little air control. For this I have an idea that I suggested in a thread before; along with the removal of damage from Maeve's pounce, her pounce has an innate 30% damage reduction (I just threw out a random number), in addition to increased air control and the ability to choose the direction of where she bounces back (i.e. pounce forward, bounce to the right; pounce forward, bounce forward).

I once suggested giving pounce 2 charges before, but I feel like this is a bit too similar to her current elimination reset pounce talent (of course I know they are different, but they have the same principle of increasing the number of times a player uses pounce). Maybe fuse these 2 talents?

I'm not too much of a fan of the 10 second reduced cool down for 9 lives at the sacrifice of pounce. Maybe an 8 reduced second cooldown (12CD) with pounce allowed, but even then this feels a bit lack luster since (based off of your idea that pounce does no damage), her prowl and pounce wouldn't need that cooldown reset in the first place since it only helps to position/chase/escape, but by the time you need to reset, you are either dead, or your opponent is dead. The only real beneficial thing I can think about this kind of talent would be that you can get back into successive fights more quickly, and frequently. I do agree that we need a nine lives talent to replace street justice (since that talent is only really useful against double tank teams), but I don't think that this version of nine lives will work out well compared to the other talents she has. Maybe a talent based on the meaning of nine lives (i.e. Every 30 seconds, Maeve revives with X1.5 damage at 2/3 hp for 12 seconds (give it a cool cat animation too XD)(change the numbers as you like)

[Shadowpuppy]

Removing the damage from pounce is a rather interesting idea since that would make her one of the few champions whose skills don't do damage. I'm only hesitant on it because it's the only real way Maeve can secure damage (most of the time) for players who miss their daggers (cause in all honesty, a lot of us suck at aiming with her weapons... especially me XD). However, if we take away her damage with pounce, the skill loses a lot of it's functionality. The main example is when she pounces at players. When Maeve pounces at a player, she becomes much more vulnerable to them because if they shoot at you when you pounce at them, she will get hit. Sure you can add damage reduction cards to it, but the main point will be, "Why pounce at an enemy at all?" After all, when you pounce at an opponent, you end up right where you pounced at them will little air control. For this I have an idea that I suggested in a thread before; along with the removal of damage from Maeve's pounce, her pounce has an innate 30% damage reduction (I just threw out a random number), in addition to increased air control and the ability to choose the direction of where she bounces back (i.e. pounce forward, bounce to the right; pounce forward, bounce forward).

I once suggested giving pounce 2 charges before, but I feel like this is a bit too similar to her current elimination reset pounce talent (of course I know they are different, but they have the same principle of increasing the number of times a player uses pounce). Maybe fuse these 2 talents?

I'm not too much of a fan of the 10 second reduced cool down for 9 lives at the sacrifice of pounce. Maybe an 8 reduced second cooldown (12CD) with pounce allowed, but even then this feels a bit lack luster since (based off of your idea that pounce does no damage), her prowl and pounce wouldn't need that cooldown reset in the first place since it only helps to position/chase/escape, but by the time you need to reset, you are either dead, or your opponent is dead. The only real beneficial thing I can think about this kind of talent would be that you can get back into successive fights more quickly, and frequently. I do agree that we need a nine lives talent to replace street justice (since that talent is only really useful against double tank teams), but I don't think that this version of nine lives will work out well compared to the other talents she has. Maybe a talent based on the meaning of nine lives (i.e. Every 30 seconds, Maeve revives with X1.5 damage at 2/3 hp for 12 seconds (give it a cool cat animation too XD)(change the numbers as you like)

The 9 lives talent would be much stronger than people think. Having your clence heal and two Prowls every 10 seconds is pretty good.

The pounce change is giving maeve a true movment skill. Every champ with moement skill can pass through enemies with it expept Maeve.

If i run down a hallway wirh Andro Lex Zhin and i run into a team of people i can dash through them and run into thier back field which causes some of thosw peoplento have to turn around to come chase.

With maeve inhave no choice but to turn around as i can run through people with prowl and pounce will hit them.

The ability to pounce through people and the increased distance will help meave more than the 400 damage.

When a Maeve is pouncing its for damage reduction not the damage.

[AR3A]

The 9 lives talent would be much stronger than people think. Having your clence heal and two Prowls every 10 seconds is pretty good.

I don't what you mean by "cleance." Did you mean cleanse? Because I thought they got rid of that this patch. Of course if they had that with the nine lives talent that you suggested, I think that'd be fine. And if we can phase through enemies during prowl, that'd be great too XD