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Thread: my take on Skye's *kit* rework (partial + balancing)

  1. #1
    Beta Player Baronet Paavis1999's Avatar
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    Lightbulb my take on Skye's *kit* rework (partial + balancing)

    So, as we all know Skye is one of the worst (if not the worst champion on PC, in everywhere except lower tiers) and since it was stated in 1.4 patch preview (if i recall correctly), that the Skye rework was going to be visual rework (not kit, just visual). So i made my own idea about what could be done to Skye's kit as an assassin, which could make her bit more viable than she is now (without making her completely OP in lower tiers).

    so, here we go.



    Base kit:

    Wrist Crossbow
    • Buff: Magasine from 20 -> 30


    Poison Bolts
    Nothing, as it is fine currently (in my opinion)

    Hidden
    • Buff: Reduce cooldown from 15s -> 12s
    • Addition: teleport 80 units to the direction you are looking at (ends stealth on teleport), teleport is only activateable in the first 5 seconds of Hidden.


    Comment: as we know, Skye is lacking mobility, very badly. so i thought that one option for that would to give her an option to sacrifice bit of invisibility for mobility

    Smoke Screen
    Rework: to Stun dart
    incapacitates an single target for short duration by channeling electricity to targets body. (dealing damage to the stunned target snaps him out of it)
    • Damage: 0
    • Duration: 4 second (1.5 seconds at minimum)
    • Cooldown: 14 seconds
    • Projectile speed: 700


    Comment: Skye has 2 ways of becoming invisible, which is just pointless (in my opinion) she'll just get countered easily with Illuminate because of this, so i thought that 1 of those abilities could be reworked into something that would have bit more utility

    Time Bomb
    • Buff: Reduce fuse time from 2.5 s -> 1.5 s
    • Nerf: Reduce damage from 3000 -> 2500


    Comment: you hardly ever get anyone with Skye's ult (unless your team sets it up with another ultimate), so making this change would possibly give enemies less time to react.

    Now, lets get into her talents

    Talents:

    Preparation
    Nothing, its fine as it is currently

    Surprise Attack
    • No longer grants 1 burst shot.
    • Increase damage by 30% for 2 seconds after Skye exits stealth


    Smoke and Dagger
    Rework: to Shock Therapy
    Stunned target takes bonus damage, Stun Dart duration is shortened, but dealing damage to the stunned target doesn’t snap him out of it
    • Duration: 2 seconds (can’t be lowered below 2 seconds. if player is using "High Voltage" card, it can be shortened back to 2 seconds with CC reductions)
    • Bonus Damage: 15%


    Debilitate
    Nothing or change it to the old one (both versions are fine)

    Old version of Debilitate was following "deal 25% more damage to enemies affected by Poison bolts"


    ok, since i made an possibility for an reworked ability, that means that i also need to rework cards that were affecting the old ability. (i also made few changes on useless cards, which would make them worth bit more)


    Cards:

    Confound: (renamed to Poisonous Restock)

    old: Hitting an enemy with Poison Bolt reduces the cooldown of Smoke Screen by [0.5|0.5] seconds.
    new: Hitting an enemy with Poison Bolt generates [1|1] ammo (per bolt hit).

    Dissipate: (renamed to [I]Shock Armor/I])

    old: Gain [10|10]% movement speed for 3s when entering Smoke Screen.
    new: Gain [5|5]% damage reduction for 4s when hitting an enemy with Stun Dart.

    Slip Away:

    old: Gain [3|3]% movement speed when Out of Combat.
    new: Gain [5|5]% movement speed

    Comment: because why would you use this, if its going to help you only in "Out of Combat" state? its not that good (and i don't know if anyone uses it in their custom loadouts), just a general buff to it

    Healing Vapors: (renamed to Electric Stimulation)

    old: Grants [100|100] health over 4 seconds when entering Smoke Screen.
    new: Hitting an enemy with Stun Dart grants [200|200] health over 4s

    Quick Smoker: (renamed to Shocking Refund)

    old: reduce cooldown of Smoke Screen by [1|1]s
    new: hitting an enemy with Stun Dart reduces its cooldown by [0.75|0.75]s

    Specter: (renamed to High Voltage)

    old: increase duration of Smoke Screen by [1|1]s
    new: increase duration of Stun Dart by [0.25|0.25]s





    So, here is what i've been brewing lately. I would love to see Skye getting an kit rework (even if it wasn't anything like i just told about). But please, make Skye viable in higher tiers too. Visual Rework isn't going to do that.



    PS: not 100% sure if this is on right part of the forums. (would "gameplay feedback" or "flank - sub category" been better for it or is it just fine in the "balance feedback" section?
    Last edited by Paavis1999; 08-29-2018 at 07:36 AM. Reason: changed few cards/talents and balanced some abilities a bit
    i miss the old Andro, Lex and Buck

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  2. #2
    Beta Player Knight MiniMarquess's Avatar
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    Yes, Skye needs a rework. It'd be hard to imagine Skye as a not-stealth champ, and her main problems are the lack of mobility and illuminate of course.

    Wrist Crossbow
    She doesn't need dmg buff (please, stop buff flankers dps just because they are now slower for console players), 1300 dps (with head-shoots is ok). And don't nerf her reload speed too. But give her at lest 30 crossbow.
    She can deal a maximum of 2600 dmg before reload, Lex (not speaking about Andro) can deal 3500/4550 dmg (depending on leg) before reload (in 2.5s). With an ammo count of 30, Skye will be able to deal 3900 dmg in 3s, more than enough to kill a dmg or a support, even with no perfect aim.

    Hidden
    Quite too much. Or reduce the cooldown or increase the duration, but not both (remember she can uses cards to reduce the cd and increase the duration too)

    Increased duration to 10s --> Cloack: Hidden lasts {0.8|0.8}s longer.
    7.5 + 5 = 12.5 max duration // 10 + 4 = 14 max duration

    CD reduced to 12s --> Shadow Affinity: Reduce the cooldown of Hidden by {0.6|0.6}s
    15 - 5 = 10s minimun CD // 12 - 3 = 9s minimum CD

    I really like the idea of a "teleport" for her. Maybe 75 units are enough (give her pursuer a chance to take her).
    Just something to add: using it, cleans stealth effect ok; but you can use it only in the firs 3s after hidden begins, and it has a 0.2s delay. She needs an escape ability, not a way to stay stealth 15s and then teleport (to going around the whole map twice). In that way if you decide to use it, you really sacrifice your stealth.

    Smoke and Dagger
    I like the new "support" talent, but Smoke is a great ability. Skye can use it to go stealth, right, but also to help an ally, hiding him, as a tank in mid vs a sniper.
    I think this ability needs a simple buff: just while in Smoke you (and allies) cannot be revealed by illuminate (that's an ez way to counter illuminate). Moreover it grants Skye 30% movement speed for 3s.
    --> Dissipate: Gain {8|8}% Movement Speed for 3s when entering Smoke Screen.
    Now you can gain 50% movement speed // After kit buff and card nerf you can gain up to 70% movement speed (and up to 25% if in stealth or up to 50% if you get the kill, and up to 30% by nimble of course).
    I like to play many champions, but I'm a support-main.
    Please, stop nerf healers 'cause they can even kill a flank once in a hundred.
    you need help and much more skill, trust me.

    If you think a support needs a nerf, just play him. You'll see how ez it is to play with 4 "vhs" spammer
    vs a full cauterize team, with a kth-tank
    and maybe 2 flankers who just want you dead.

    I bet after 5 minutes you’ll say: “Please, buff healers!”

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  3. #3
    Beta Player Sovereign Prince SiderumNocte's Avatar
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    As someone who does really like Skye and who has played her to much success I disagree with reworks mentioned here.

    Now I have brought up the fact that Skye has only 20 ammo and you to land 17 to kill a 2200 Health target which makes her a champion in which you need a near 90% accuracy. Unlike other champions she does not have a card that restocks ammo in any immediate capacity which is one of the main issues. She only has a single card that restores ammo after Eliminations. As far as I can tell every other champion has a card that allows them to get ammo after some sort of an ability or in other words an Immediate Capacity. Now on the other end Skye is basically the only champion in which you can have almost 100% up time on Reload Speed that matters, 50% actual reload speed at max.

    What makes Skye unique and quite fun, and also sometimes somewhat frustrating is her reliance on Poison Bolts.
    I love Poison Bolts as an ability and the cards linked to in loadouts. It makes Skye a heavy momentum champion.
    Even running Poisoner at lvl 4 with Nimble Fingers automatically grants you 100% Reload Speed up time.
    I am fine with the fact that she only has 20 ammo after thinking it over because of the reload speed but she is missing an important card.

    If any card should be reworked the only card in the Poisoner Bolts category I could think of is Confounded.
    Skye needs a card that "Replenishes" X amount of ammo for hitting Poison Bolts but by the same token I feel Confounded fits in with the idea of being Momentum based and skill based albeit if it's only ran for Smoke and Dagger builds.

    She needs a single card to buffed and that card is Healing Vapors. Skye is one of the few champions that has a pathetic healing option. A simple buff would be to at double the amount of healing if not make it 250.

    The second biggest issue with Skye right now is her Damage Falloff. She hardly contributes to the fight from afar, in fact Debilitate is basically the only means to contribute any real meaningful damage from afar.


    There are 3 cards that should never be touched: Decrepify, Nimble Fingers, Poisoner. The rest are mere trash in comparison.

    At the very least Skye just needs simple touch ups at best a rework of everything but her Poison Bolts.
    Only thing I agree with you is the fuse time on Skye's Ult needs to be shorter. Right now at best it only serves as a zoning ult rather than anything really useful.
    Patch 1.4 Ying Best Healer in the Damn Game.

    Support Skye is a better healer than Jenos.

  4. #4
    Member Knight AikoSmurf's Avatar
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    Man, don't change smoke screen, that's her most useful skill IMO as it has many uses.

    In a single game I use it as: a finisher, a speed boost, a confuse tactic, a hide a teammate, toss it on point during congestion, and a quick escape.

    I think she just needs more base speed.
    IGN: tastegw

  5. #5
    Beta Player Baronet Paavis1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniMarquess View Post

    Wrist Crossbow
    She doesn't need dmg buff (please, stop buff flankers dps just because they are now slower for console players), 1300 dps (with head-shoots is ok). And don't nerf her reload speed too. But give her at lest 30 crossbow.
    She can deal a maximum of 2600 dmg before reload, Lex (not speaking about Andro) can deal 3500/4550 dmg (depending on leg) before reload (in 2.5s). With an ammo count of 30, Skye will be able to deal 3900 dmg in 3s, more than enough to kill a dmg or a support, even with no perfect aim.
    yeah, that may have been bit too much to suggest, to me the weapon has just seem to be lacking (but i guess that is because i got so used to the old Debilitate, which gave 25% damage increase to the targets affected by Poison Bolts)

    Quote Originally Posted by MiniMarquess View Post
    Hidden
    Quite too much. Or reduce the cooldown or increase the duration, but not both (remember she can uses cards to reduce the cd and increase the duration too)

    Increased duration to 10s --> Cloack: Hidden lasts {0.8|0.8}s longer.
    7.5 + 5 = 12.5 max duration // 10 + 4 = 14 max duration

    CD reduced to 12s --> Shadow Affinity: Reduce the cooldown of Hidden by {0.6|0.6}s
    15 - 5 = 10s minimun CD // 12 - 3 = 9s minimum CD

    I really like the idea of a "teleport" for her. Maybe 75 units are enough (give her pursuer a chance to take her).
    Just something to add: using it, cleans stealth effect ok; but you can use it only in the firs 3s after hidden begins, and it has a 0.2s delay. She needs an escape ability, not a way to stay stealth 15s and then teleport (to going around the whole map twice). In that way if you decide to use it, you really sacrifice your stealth.
    i was first thinking of just decreasing the cooldown and adding the teleport (which now that i think, would have been enough for the ability), but in my opinion, the teleport should be an option for the first 5 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by MiniMarquess View Post
    Smoke and Dagger
    I like the new "support" talent, but Smoke is a great ability. Skye can use it to go stealth, right, but also to help an ally, hiding him, as a tank in mid vs a sniper.
    I think this ability needs a simple buff: just while in Smoke you (and allies) cannot be revealed by illuminate (that's an ez way to counter illuminate). Moreover it grants Skye 30% movement speed for 3s.
    --> Dissipate: Gain {8|8}% Movement Speed for 3s when entering Smoke Screen.
    Now you can gain 50% movement speed // After kit buff and card nerf you can gain up to 70% movement speed (and up to 25% if in stealth or up to 50% if you get the kill, and up to 30% by nimble of course).

    i never kinda liked the Smoke Screen, the stealth Skye gets from it is so short and having 2 ways of invisibility made Skye way too easily counterable with Illuminate (and decent awareness).
    Thats kinda the reason i chose to make an rework for Smoke Screen (over any other of her abilities).
    i miss the old Andro, Lex and Buck

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  6. #6
    Beta Player Baronet Paavis1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiderumNocte View Post
    Now I have brought up the fact that Skye has only 20 ammo and you to land 17 to kill a 2200 Health target which makes her a champion in which you need a near 90% accuracy. Unlike other champions she does not have a card that restocks ammo in any immediate capacity which is one of the main issues. She only has a single card that restores ammo after Eliminations. As far as I can tell every other champion has a card that allows them to get ammo after some sort of an ability or in other words an Immediate Capacity. Now on the other end Skye is basically the only champion in which you can have almost 100% up time on Reload Speed that matters, 50% actual reload speed at max.
    yes, she doesn't have a card that restocks ammo, but i think that is because her reload speed is already so short (and as you said, its going to be even lower with Nimble Fingers).

    Quote Originally Posted by SiderumNocte View Post
    What makes Skye unique and quite fun, and also sometimes somewhat frustrating is her reliance on Poison Bolts.
    I love Poison Bolts as an ability and the cards linked to in loadouts. It makes Skye a heavy momentum champion.
    Even running Poisoner at lvl 4 with Nimble Fingers automatically grants you 100% Reload Speed up time.
    I am fine with the fact that she only has 20 ammo after thinking it over because of the reload speed but she is missing an important card.

    If any card should be reworked the only card in the Poisoner Bolts category I could think of is Confounded.
    Skye needs a card that "Replenishes" X amount of ammo for hitting Poison Bolts but by the same token I feel Confounded fits in with the idea of being Momentum based and skill based albeit if it's only ran for Smoke and Dagger builds.
    of course, i could maybe change the "confound" reworked card to be so, "hitting enemy with Poison Bolts generated [1|1] ammo" (per bolt hit, so maximum of 15 ammo restored)

    Quote Originally Posted by SiderumNocte View Post
    She needs a single card to buffed and that card is Healing Vapors. Skye is one of the few champions that has a pathetic healing option. A simple buff would be to at double the amount of healing if not make it 250.

    The second biggest issue with Skye right now is her Damage Falloff. She hardly contributes to the fight from afar, in fact Debilitate is basically the only means to contribute any real meaningful damage from afar.
    That i can agree on, Healing Vapors has always been bit of an weak card and not worth using and that she doesn't really have any means of long range damage (thats why i suggested the mobility buff to Hidden, making it easier to approach the enemy or get away if things get too hot)

    Quote Originally Posted by SiderumNocte View Post
    There are 3 cards that should never be touched: Decrepify, Nimble Fingers, Poisoner. The rest are mere trash in comparison.

    At the very least Skye just needs simple touch ups at best a rework of everything but her Poison Bolts.
    Only thing I agree with you is the fuse time on Skye's Ult needs to be shorter. Right now at best it only serves as a zoning ult rather than anything really useful.
    i agree on that those cards shouldn't be remade (even tho i kinda did suggest moving Decrepify to a card on another ability), but i made it so because slowing an enemy makes them an easier target to hit.

    of course, there was 2 other things i was thinking about. those being weakening the enemy affected by poison bolts, like taking extra damage or them dealing less damage during it.
    (now that i think of that, i propably could put Decrepify as normal and change the other cards a bit.)
    i miss the old Andro, Lex and Buck

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  7. #7
    Beta Player Baronet Paavis1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AikoSmurf View Post
    Man, don't change smoke screen, that's her most useful skill IMO as it has many uses.

    In a single game I use it as: a finisher, a speed boost, a confuse tactic, a hide a teammate, toss it on point during congestion, and a quick escape.

    I think she just needs more base speed.

    i kinda disagree with that, i never found Smoke Screen to be that useful and Skye definitely needs alot more than more base speed, but hey, thats just my opinion. (you can have yours)
    Last edited by Paavis1999; 08-29-2018 at 07:39 AM.
    i miss the old Andro, Lex and Buck

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    Beta Player Baronet CSX82's Avatar
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    No no no, don't touch smoke screen. It is not used as a second option to cloak yourself. Throw it on the enemy, they will not be able to see anybody outside the cloud as long as they are inside (enemy AND friendly). Or throw it on friendlies to hide them (they will be hidden unless they start shooting). But it should be buffed a bit. If a healer like Jenos or Furia is inside, they can still heal friendlies they cannot see, as they still can target them. That should be gone.
    Also don't touch surprise attack, it does 500 damage at any range and is great to finished hurt enemies that do not see you coming.
    The main problem for Skye right now are all the reveals that exist now. And since not long ago reveals work for the entire team, instead of just the player that has it like it used to be.
    Another big problem is just the big unbalance in talents of the other champions that are just crazy, and should have been toned down months ago (Tyra burn monster, Andro heads will roll, Strix unauthorized use,... just to name a few examples).
    September 2017, OB59
    Androxus was turned into the Spam Lord for more damage than any other champion.

  9. #9
    Beta Player Baronet Paavis1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSX82 View Post
    No no no, don't touch smoke screen. It is not used as a second option to cloak yourself. Throw it on the enemy, they will not be able to see anybody outside the cloud as long as they are inside (enemy AND friendly). Or throw it on friendlies to hide them (they will be hidden unless they start shooting). But it should be buffed a bit. If a healer like Jenos or Furia is inside, they can still heal friendlies they cannot see, as they still can target them. That should be gone.
    i can understand that some people don't want Smoke Screen to be reworked and that its useful in some cases.

    Quote Originally Posted by CSX82 View Post
    The main problem for Skye right now are all the reveals that exist now. And since not long ago reveals work for the entire team, instead of just the player that has it like it used to be.
    Another big problem is just the big unbalance in talents of the other champions that are just crazy, and should have been toned down months ago (Tyra burn monster, Andro heads will roll, Strix unauthorized use,... just to name a few examples).
    EMG could make Skye more resilient to Illuminate and reveal abilities/cards (but i doubt that will happen) but another choice is to nerf the reveal items/cards/abilities, but that would be too much work

    and as a side note, Strix's "Unauthorized Use" is pretty much his only viable talent at the moment (Ambush is meh, since you need to be in stealth for it, Crack Shot is not that good since Strix's pistol is underpowered and that you need to first hit the target with the Sniper to get the bonus damage and Nocturnal is just not that good)
    i miss the old Andro, Lex and Buck

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    Beta Player Knight MiniMarquess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSX82 View Post
    The main problem for Skye right now are all the reveals that exist now.
    When i said: "while in Smoke you (and allies) cannot be revealed by illuminate" I oc meant by illuminate or other reveal abilities/cards (but Tyra Mark). Almost each champ has a "reveal card", and when I see Skye in enemy team, I simply use the "Skye loadout", but if she could use her Smoke to counter it, she'll be a little more viable.


    Quote Originally Posted by CSX82 View Post
    Another big problem is just the big unbalance in talents of the other champions that are just crazy, and should have been toned down months ago (Tyra burn monster, Andro heads will roll, Strix unauthorized use,... just to name a few examples).
    Smoke and Dagger is a great talent, which allows Skye to deal up to 1200 dmg (in quite big area) in less than 2s (with right loadout). Do you want to speak about unbalance? What about Pip's Mischief? Until this patch Pip had 2 viable talents (3 now). Mischief is the most useless talent ever (1s reduced CD each 8s -not for potion-, and conditioned by healing).
    New talents are usually broken (Heads will roll - Death and Taxes - Street Justice...), rarely UP or totally useless (Mischief - Nothing Personal - Dragonfire Lance...), but sometimes they are balanced (Smoke and Dagger - Slug Shot - Explosive Arrows...)


    What I mean is this: "That champ has a broken talent, I want my champ too has a broken leg"
    That's wrong, HiRez should rework talents to balance them, nerfing the broken ones and buffing the "Mischiefs" ones on the other side.
    In that way each champ will have 4 talents, but now, if you wanna play Pip, you'll never go for Mischief, while each Androxus will simply chose Heads will roll just 'cause it is better than other legendaries. If you play Lex (another quite op champ), you can choose your talent depending on you game style, loadout, enemies and allies (he has 4 good talents after all).
    Last edited by MiniMarquess; 08-29-2018 at 01:56 PM. Reason: I added the last paragraph
    I like to play many champions, but I'm a support-main.
    Please, stop nerf healers 'cause they can even kill a flank once in a hundred.
    you need help and much more skill, trust me.

    If you think a support needs a nerf, just play him. You'll see how ez it is to play with 4 "vhs" spammer
    vs a full cauterize team, with a kth-tank
    and maybe 2 flankers who just want you dead.

    I bet after 5 minutes you’ll say: “Please, buff healers!”

    »» Galatea - Divinity of the elements ««

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