Skye can totaly deny and bully Kinessa

[MiuiKy]

Been running into this situation..
If there's a Skye in the enemy team she, most likely, will bully and deny Kinessa through out the match making her a complete dead-weight, not bad on the Skye tho', she's doing her job by flanking and picking Kinessa but I feel like I'm being cheated.. There's really not many options a Kinessa can do when faced with Skye, her Carbine has lower accuracy when unscoped, the transporter travel slowly and has high cooldown so Skye can just use Hidden to get a speed boost and track you and the worst of all is that her mines does NOT track invisible enemies wich makes then useless since they're amazing at keeping Kinessa alert of her surroundings but since Skye can just pass through them without worries you can't really see her coming..

I understand counter and counters are fine but Skye right now is a bully not a counter to Kinessa and, again, the problem is not on Skye, it's on Kinessa, since I start playing I didn't saw many Kinessa players (At least not in normal games, I see plenty in training and on the forums but mostly of my matches I barely see one) and it was easy to realize why.. I played many matches with her so far and everything else about her is fine, except when there's a Skye in the enemy team, Androxus and Evie are also problems but depending of where and how you place the mines you can see they coming and be prepared, she still don't have much of a chance against them but at least it gives the option to fight back or at least try, dying out of nowhere for something you couldn't do anything about isn't fun.. So I believe her mines SHOULD be able to track ANY enemy, not just the visible ones, it would make easy for Kinessa to see Skye coming and Skye would still be a hard counter to her but not a bully.


TL;DR - Kinessa's mines doens't track invisible characters therefore Skye can easily erase her and make her worthless in the match, make mines be able to track her like any other champion and I believe it'll be fine.

[LascarCapable]

I do think too that being countered too hard by something is an issue, especially in Paladins where you are basically stuck with the character you picked at the start of the game. It might be logic from a game balance point of view, but there's two other factors to take into account : fairness and fun. The whole counter mess is basically one of the reason I dislike Overwatch a lot : counters tend to be too good against things they counter, so you don't stand a chance against your counter, and always end up dying over and over again in a frustrating way. In one hand this forces you to play as a team which is something nice, on the other hand getting killed by something that you can't fight back or avoid just brings out anger. An exemple I have about this is the Scout vs Engineer matchup in TF2 (considering that you can't use unlocks) : as soon as the engineer pulled out a sentry with a level of at least 2, if you are a scout, you can just stop playing and switch. You'll never pass a sentry gun by yourself. Too bad if you like playing scout...

This is why I think counters should have an advantage against their main targets, but that advantage shouldn't nullify that character either. The Scout vs Demoman matchup in TF2 is the best exemple I have (considering we do not use unlocks, once again) : (at least at high level) the scout is supposed the wreck the Demoman hard since he's very quick and evasive and the Demoman does not have any hitscan weapons, but the Demoman can manage to defend himself is he sees the scout coming by trying to prevent the scout from reaching him at short range. If the scout managed to reach him, he can still in a last hope try to pull out his grenade launcher and land a direct hit or two at the scout in hope to kill him despite the high self damage risk. The matchup here advantage the scout a lot but remains fair as it does not leave the demoman without options.

This said, I can't really say anything about the Skye vs Kinessa matchup as I do not have enough experience in game with Kinessa yet. But I did experienced an Androxus vs Bomb King matchup (me as Bomb King) that pretty much made me loose my shit. I just couldn't do anything against him, it was really frustrating. On the other hand my team was overall pretty bad, so there's probably that to take into account as well.

[Miragen]

It's probably the hardest counter in the game, same reason why I never pick Kinessa, because as the game is currently there's almost always a Skye in the game, and you don't have a chance against her at all.
It should be a disadvantage against your counter, like in pokemon you have type advantages, but you could still beat them in ways, it wasn't this rock-paper-scissor thing.

That said though, when there is no counter for Kinessa she becomes insanely dangerous, especially on certain maps.
It wouldn't be too much of an issue if they stuck with the old concept of multiple cap zones, so the advantage would or could switch per cap point.

[JonasV]

I can deal with hard counters, but Skye just completely negates Kinessa. Kinessa has no way to avoid/defend against her and Skye can kill her in 1 clip, which means that any time you pick Kinessa and the other team has Skye (95%+ of the time based on the matches I have played at present), Kinessa is completely useless. Which means I cannot ever play one of the characters I really enjoy playing, because Skye being a nearly guaranteed pick means I'm dead weight unless the Skye players is complete garbage.

The demo/scout comparison is apt. I good demo can still defend/deny against a scout and has a reasonable chance of survival. Skill has no impact on Kinessa vs Skye, a clip at close range is always fatal so reaction time is useless, similarly teleported is too slow to be of any use as an evade, and Skye is immune to Mines while in stealth. Kinessa simply has no options. Skye is not so much a hard counter to Kinessa she is a complete counter to Kinessa, as in completely negating her if both are picked. The problem then stems also from the fact that Skye is not only a complete counter to Kinessa, but also a hard counter to anyone with < 2500 HP. She is simply too good at too many things at present.

[newhek]

NEVER pick Kinessa in map with many flank points (eh.. NEVER might be exagerating.. but yeah), you get the idea.
Using headphone will give you big advantages against skye since you can hear her steps from 5 meters away or near that.
If you hear steps and there's no one there, just run away.

[JonasV]

NEVER pick Kinessa in map with many flank points (eh.. NEVER might be exagerating.. but yeah), you get the idea.

So... all of them? Because they all have flank points.

Regardless, for a character with true invis and no way to reveal her it doesn't matter. She can wade through incoming fire and face shot you with impunity. It happens frequently and it works, that is part of the problem. Why bother with flanking when she can just stealth right in front of you, strafe to the side and kill any sub-2500 character in 1 clip point-blank (150x15=2250 minimum and that is without any ammo cards or the damage bonus from Poison Bolts) before they can react. At that range she doesn't even need to aim, with hitboxes as big as they are she only need to stay close enough to empty the clip. The only characters who can reliably evade her at that range are Pip and Cassie and that still boils down to how good Skye is. If the player has fast reflexes you are still dead even with Weightless/Disengage.

[MiuiKy]

Wow, didn't expected people to agree with me.. usually people here are Skye elitists so..

But yeah.. I don't see many Kinessas because it's almost a sure hit someone will pick Skye and then playing with Kinessa is going to be a chore.. Like it was said, since there's no way to change characters and you gotta stick with what you picked they should make Kinessa at least have a chance to either defend herself or run away and as it is right now Skye can totaly dominate her before she can either try to do any of these things.. Usually the mines would make Kinessa alert of her surroundings since she's, most of the time, scoped in but since it doesn't work on Skye while she's invisible it's just a piece of junk..

[l33tk1ng]

Yes. Kinessa is pretty much dead weight against decent Skye, Andorxus even Cassie and Viktor. Why?

Skye = just ruins your day by following everywhere you go
Androxus = pretty much same stuff, I only need good awareness or I'm dead
Cassie = her fire rate is jokingly high, making her snipes deal more overall damage and has damage boost with fast rolling dodge roll, she's "better" Kinessa
Viktor = decent Viktor will flank Kinessa whenever he can and has permanent speed buff to escape and juke (and getting hit by his ult never feels gud lol)

My proposed buffs for Kinessa would be increasing her teleport animation speed, it's way too slow to escape properly, and maybe increase her assault rifle accuracy.
She simply has way too many counters right now, pretty painful to play her to be honest if you can see other champions doing her job better.

[newhek]

Just like that guy above me said, kinessa is pretty much useless without good team, she literally need a bodyguard like viktor or pip.
And i think increasing teleport animation won't be enough, using "teleport post" or something like that would be better, if someone is close to you, click the button and wait for backup.

[JonasV]

I'm to the point after this afternoon and last night I don't even want to play anymore. I cannot play one of my favorite characters because all I am is free kills the entire match for Skye, which is always picked due to her current state. One character completely negates another and is still a hard counter to nearly every other Damage and Support character as well.

Every match I have played Kinessa in the last 2 days every Skye literally just camps the backfield and kills me as soon as I scope in, sometime I get hit with Poison Bolts before I even dismount. And there is literally nothing I can do about it, no amount of skill on the part of Kinessa can do anything about Skye. You are free kills, that is it. Anyone who plays Skye knows this so they target Kinessa specifically because there is zero risk.

It's like old school WoW Rogues all over again. New meaning to the phrase "killed in a global".